Legion - info and strategies

[keseasura]

What's stopping you from bringing 3 more melee DD instead of RNGs? Are mobs getting off so many TP moves that your DD need to be out of range or turtle up? What's that second WHM doing if the RNGs never take any damage?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that there are viable non-PD methods, but I'm not really following why the whole strategy relies on RNG. I'm also not seeing how skipping out on minimal effort, and in most cases mule, SMN for PD is helping any group out there that doesn't have 18 active members(7-8 chars we normally bring are mules).

As for PD method, I don't agree that it slows a group down. We've cleared 5 wave3 mobs a couple times(30% timeout on 6th one time), with 4 being very common. Granted, the method for using PD has evolved a whole lot since killing 4+ wave3 mobs became a common occurrence. We typically kill wave1 in 3min using only 1 PD at the start, wave2 in 4-6min using PD only for Naraka, then 4 PDs left for Gallu+Rex for the rest of the run.

Until the nerf, I just don't see why anyone would want to bring more characters to accomplish the same thing.

i can understand why you continue to do this when it has been successful for you, and no need to change things now. and the 2nd whm is help the other whm cure the main dd pty. with 3 sch, it is very rare for any tp move to get off, the reason we use hybrid sets is just because of the auto-attack and if any tp move was to get off it would most likely mean some deaths.

as for the rangers i find it funny how much people severely underestimate a fully buffed rng dmg (minx3 hunter chaos rogues tact rcb) with the 3 ranger doing 3k+ weaponskills, and 800-3k RA, and 2-8k barrage. i can see how bringing 3 drk/war/drg might be helpful, but it puts a lot less stress on the whm trying to keep up with cures the main dd's. again to each his own, i see that the way you guys do it has been working out so why change it now?

[Raffi_XI]

as for the rangers i find it funny how much people severely underestimate a fully buffed rng dmg (minx3 hunter chaos rogues tact rcb) with the 3 ranger doing 3k+ weaponskills, and 800-3k RA, and 2-8k barrage. i can see how bringing 3 drk/war/drg might be helpful, but it puts a lot less stress on the whm trying to keep up with cures the main dd's.

Ranger is a hell of a lot more high maintenance and more susceptible to play error than an Auto-Attacking melee DD. If you put even a half amount of effort that is put into ranger into a melee dd spot, results would favor the melee DD. The update to lessen time between ranged attacks helped rng out a ton, but it no where near matches what haste does for melee DD.

The ONLY thing ranger has an advantage over melee dd is distance in this case. But if TP moves aren't firing off often like you say, this shouldn't be an issue.

[keseasura]

Ranger is a hell of a lot more high maintenance and more susceptible to play error than an Auto-Attacking melee DD. If you put even a half amount of effort that is put into ranger into a melee dd spot, results would favor the melee DD. The update to lessen time between ranged attacks helped rng out a ton, but it no where near matches what haste does for melee DD.

The ONLY thing ranger has an advantage over melee dd is distance in this case. But if TP moves aren't firing off often like you say, this shouldn't be an issue.

thats fine, but being able to do 4-6 wave 3 mobs without pd, with some of our dd being far from optimal. can you please enlighten me on what would be better other than just saying what would do better on paper, because all i hear is speculation and anecdotal information.

i'll post the parse from our next run on monday and you will see how 4dd 3rng, some of the main dd being far from optimal, have no trouble clearing 4-6 wave 3 mobs.

[dasva]

Rngs also have a huge pdif advantage too

[Kalasin]

I agree, if your method works for you, keep going with it, I'm not saying ours is better or anything. We are just expecting the worst for the PD/Embrava nerfs and were trying to find a way to get around it, so we can keep going rather than finding a new way to beat it when it does happen.

The main point of RNGs is, even if shit happens, such as the wave2 harpy randomly wiping out the DD because of a mispathing, or the Giant getting a TP move off that strips the dd and they die afterwards, the RNG can keep going even if only one DD is left alive, as they are unlikely to pull hate off said DD(keep in mind using relic rangers), however still deal heavy damage and keep the kills up. Even if a "bad" TP move goes off, and it will eventually, nobody is perfect etc, it won't slow you down to the point where you have to stop killing, but instead you can keep going. If you had 2 DD parties with 2 WHMs only, that would be a different story. I'm sure it would work, but I'm also sure you would have more runs with less mobs killed(assuming no PD).

We have each WHM focusing on 2 of our DD, so healing isn't really a problem, but if 2 WHM had 3-4 DD each without PD and without a break between mobs, I'm not sure they could keep up.

Edit: And in response to the RNG is high maintenance post of Raffi, RNG needs no more than any other DD is getting anyway as well. We rotate the CORs and the BRD, the DD and RNGs all have 4 rolls and 3-4 songs(depending on who's our BRD) up during the entire run. Different rolls mind you, but that doesn't change the fact they all have the same number of buffs. Reading your post, it makes me think you either haven't played RNG, have played it and sucked at it, or haven't met a good RNG. The simple fact a RNG can almost keep up with a DD without taking hate and damage, is good enough in my eyes.

[Dotsudoku]

How in the world is RNG more high maintenance? Potentially inapplicable to Legion, but being out of dispel range is a pretty big deal with regard to maintenance.

[Helel]

Even if you're using the PD method, you might as well have 5 RNGs spamming last stand over 5 melee jobs. The problem is it's hard to find people who are willing to dish out 300k+, and even harder to find people who know what they're doing. It's much easier just to throw embrava at a bunch of melees and tell them to whack things with their sticks.

[dasva]

How in the world is RNG more high maintenance? Potentially inapplicable to Legion, but being out of dispel range is a pretty big deal with regard to maintenance.

Generally rngs need more att buffs to cap pdif though part of that is due to higher caps... on the other hand they don't need any haste and don't care about your DA roll so can stick to more regain. That's normally though. Avoiding dispel just adds to it. I guess you could account for the bullets which are rather expensive given how fast you shoot them and all

[Pandum]

Spoiler: show

first wave 4 clear without smns

[Dazusu]

Spoiler: show

first wave 4 clear without smns

It's great to see this being done! Time to try this No-SMN thing!

[Taint]

Spoiler: show

first wave 4 clear without smns

sET UP?

[keseasura]

sET UP?

idk what they go, but we go, (warx2 drkx2 whm cor, rngx3 cor brd whm, schx3 thf pldx2) and we have no trouble at all clearing 4-6 mobs.

[Dazusu]

idk what they go, but we go, (warx2 drkx2 whm cor, rngx3 cor brd whm, schx3 thf pldx2) and we have no trouble at all clearing 4-6 mobs.

I tried something like this last night, except two Paladins are unnecessary, so I took a summoner instead for Tidal Roar. I agree that one of the biggest time sinks when using 5 summoners is waiting for PD to be applied, and mobs to be pulled accordingly. Use more melee, mobs die quicker making PD unnecessary anyway. I like it!

[keseasura]

it may or may not be, but we use 1 pld to hold the wave 1+2 naraka, and call out what stance they in, we also rotate the plds in for holy circle, o and we do rex first, so its much easier to hold gallu by just bouncing it back and forth, esp since he runs at 150%

[Kalasin]

We just did 2 more Mul runs without PD and the setup mentioned above, cleared Gallux2 Botulusx2 on first, and Gallux3 Botulusx2 on second run, getting better. Wave3 was down after 17~19 minutes.

[Ihina]

Question.

When gallu mighty strikes and starts meleeing people for 2k+, or when Naraka attacks with 4 swords and hits your DDs for 1.5k, how do you guys survive that? Or is it really necessary to tell the DDs to sit in their pdt gear in those fights?

[Kenrusai]

we had RNG's do a shadowbind rotation for when Gallu MS, not sure what Kese's group did though

[Raelia]

it may or may not be, but we use 1 pld to hold the wave 1+2 naraka, and call out what stance they in, we also rotate the plds in for holy circle, o and we do rex first, so its much easier to hold gallu by just bouncing it back and forth, esp since he runs at 150%

AF feet boost duration of Circle JAs by 50%, so up to 4:30. You can then at least 3/5 recast merits (like any others matter but Shield Bash) for 4:30/4:30. You shouldn't need to rotate.

[keseasura]

AF feet boost duration of Circle JAs by 50%, so up to 4:30. You can then at least 3/5 recast merits (like any others matter but Shield Bash) for 4:30/4:30. You shouldn't need to rotate.

you know there is 2 naraka right?

[Jem]

you know there is 2 naraka right?

Holy Circle buffs the player and can be kept up fulltime so why does the number of Naraka matter? It's not like it disappears when you switch from Naraka 1 to Naraka 2. Or am I missing something?

Or do you mean Sepulcher which is the mob debuff?