SWTOR: Random Complaint thread. F2P means P2Win

[vrumpt]

@Kaylia: As for your above comment, you're wrong again. Auto attack wouldn't mean shit in WoW if the current engine remained the same, and mages were taken out of the game, yes (and truthfully, even Mages have Ice Block, which will instantly cancel whatever they were doing, regardless of the GCD or any "animation locks"). However, as we can all plainly see, SW is not WoW. SW has taken the mage platform and applied it to every melee, whereas in WoW, that Combat Rogue has the freedom to override any lengthy attack he sees fit to, should he need to. Not so in SW, where you're stuck until the animation completes. In WoW, that rogue would probably have been one-shot by the boss during a stupid lengthy ability that he couldn't cancel until the animation finished if he pulled massive threat from doing so much damage. That is nothing like WoW's system.

White damage isn't the issue here: melees being subjected to the same penalties as a ranged-attacking, magic-flinging, spell-generating class is the core issue, and until you stop attempting to deflect the blame to a weak argument like white damage (which anyone with some semblance of common sense can easily see through), you're not going to be taken seriously.

That isn't at all the purpose of the post as I took it. The auto-attack thing is a disjointed discussion, and is in no way connection to combat animations too long.

I also feel like this discussion is moot anyway. I don't play a melee in SWTOR and you don't even own the game. Neither one of us can contribute meaningfully to this discussion since its just theoretical from both sides. I can say thought that having run ops with my guild a couple times this week, not one of the melee classes in my guild has complained at all about performance problems tied to combat animations, or even about combat animations in general. He's been able to DPS fine and interrupt abilities fine.

I feel like this entire descussion is pointless and surrounded by misguided and incorrect assumptions.

[Draygon]

So, just to make sure I'm actually reading this right, the argument here is that the lack of auto-attacking takes away from the gameplay? That's probably one of the dumbest arguments I have read in these threads. Auto-attacking does absolutely nothing, and makes the combat even less appealing in some scenarios. Ever join a dungeon that you're slightly too low for as a warrior? Have fun missing for hours, having absolutely no rage, and being able to use one ability every five seconds when you do manage to land enough hits for that Raging Blow. For overall DPS, there is absolutely no difference between SW and WoW when it comes to white attacks - as Kaylia/Vrumpt have already mentioned, it's just passive damage added on top of your abilities. If it were a feature in Star Wars, everything would have more health. Absolutely nothing would change.

As far as the actual animations go, I play a Marauder, and have only found two issues as of yet. If Ravage decides to glitch, you will end up being stun-locked until the cast time is over, unable to cancel the animation while dealing no damage, although without using the cool-down on the ability. That's unintended, but it is an unfortunate occurrence. The only scenario where animations actually matter is failing to use Undying Rage while you're low on health. Most of the time, it won't go off in time if you try to wait until the last minute, or come out of a stun at low health.

[Lucavi]

That isn't at all the purpose of the post as I took it. The auto-attack thing is a disjointed discussion, and is in no way connection to combat animations too long.

I also feel like this discussion is moot anyway. I don't play a melee in SWTOR and you don't even own the game. Neither one of us can contribute meaningfully to this discussion since its just theoretical from both sides. I can say thought that having run ops with my guild a couple times this week, not one of the melee classes in my guild has complained at all about performance problems tied to combat animations, or even about combat animations in general. He's been able to DPS fine and interrupt abilities fine.

I feel like this entire descussion is pointless and surrounded by misguided and incorrect assumptions.

Its a complaint in the complaint thread. Its a valid discussion. If you have a problem with complaints being in the complaint section, perhaps you shouldn't traffic the complaint section, especially if all you're going to do is White Knight the game and any flaws (real or perceived) of it.

[vrumpt]

Its a complaint in the complaint thread. Its a valid discussion. If you have a problem with complaints being in the complaint section, perhaps you shouldn't traffic the complaint section, especially if all you're going to do is White Knight the game and any flaws (real or perceived) of it.

You're a troll. You don't own the game yet you continue to stay here and try to discuss complaints about a game you don't even own. There are complaints, such as I hate how i keep getting screwed out of battlemaster bags, and then there are discussions and theorycrafting about aspects of the game. Some of these apply to other games in the MMO genre, and this is what has happened in the last page or so. I have taken a stance on this, and you call me a white knight for taking the opposite stance.

Please think more before you continue to make an ass out of yourself. I'm not white knighting this at all.

[Inactive]

So, just to make sure I'm actually reading this right, the argument here is that the lack of auto-attacking takes away from the gameplay? That's probably one of the dumbest arguments I have read in these threads. Auto-attacking does absolutely nothing, and makes the combat even less appealing in some scenarios. Ever join a dungeon that you're slightly too low for as a warrior? Have fun missing for hours, having absolutely no rage, and being able to use one ability every five seconds when you do manage to land enough hits for that Raging Blow. For overall DPS, there is absolutely no difference between SW and WoW when it comes to white attacks - as Kaylia/Vrumpt have already mentioned, it's just passive damage added on top of your abilities. If it were a feature in Star Wars, everything would have more health. Absolutely nothing would change.

Once again I was referring more to PvP and just linked that world of logs thing to show that auto-attack is actually a large portion of a melee's DPS because vrumpt said it was past level 1. Who gives a shit about this problem in regards to PvE, you're just spamming abilities while standing stationary anyway, so having 1 more button to press in your rotation isn't a big deal. However it severely hurts any hope for competitive PvP. PvP not your thing? then sure 3 second long animations and not being able to quickly and efficiently manage your globals probably isn't of any importance to you.

[Draygon]

Once again I was referring more to PvP and just linked that world of logs thing to show that auto-attack is actually a large portion of a melee's DPS because vrumpt said it was past level 1. Who gives a shit about this problem in regards to PvE, you're just spamming abilities while standing stationary anyway, so having 1 more button to press in your rotation isn't a big deal. However it severely hurts any hope for competitive PvP. PvP not your thing? then sure 3 second long animations and not being able to quickly and efficiently manage your globals probably isn't of any importance to you.

Rank 51 valor marauder, and like I said, I can destroy just about anyone equally geared in a 1v1. Is everyone on my server terrible? Possibly. With the exception of perhaps Force Choke in pvp making myself vulnerable for a few seconds, I do not have any immediate issues with animations. If you're curious about my skill level, I can only say that I was 1850 in arenas on Wow. So, about average/maybe slightly above?

Edit: My alternate is a Mercenary healer, and that's the only other character I've created. If you're speaking from another's class' viewpoint other than these two, I wouldn't have the foggiest idea. I'm not going to continue arguing if that is the case, as I haven't experienced that personally.

[Kaylia]

You're not even comparing apples and oranges at this point. You're comparing castor oil and desserts, essentially, and honestly, it doesn't matter one way or another. SW is the newest major MMO out there and it has problems that MMO's that came out in 2006 had under lock and key. The game has systems so flawed that you've got... ugh, God, I don't even know what you are in this situation - a fanboy or an idiot - defending them by referencing a shallow attempt at ripping EQ off, covering it in JRPG elements and colors, and designing it straight for console. You seriously don't know how weak your argument is at this point; the goddamn game was designed a decade ago, and you cannot see the problem with one designed a decade later having one of the same core problems with its combat?

Are you out of your mind or are you simply unable to read and wanted to type a huge obnoxious post that completely miss the point? Either way, it's stupid.


[edit]
Auto-attack argument goes far beyond SWTOR. I said the same about FFXIV, and I also hated the game. You can label me as a "white knight" if you want, but people believing that adding it would change anything are and will always be idiot.

That isn't at all the purpose of the post as I took it. The auto-attack thing is a disjointed discussion, and is in no way connection to combat animations too long.

At least someone get it.

[Shuvo]

So I've been playing this game pretty hardcore (weekends / most weekday evening) for about 4 weeks now and I have one question for you all: What are you all on about? lol. The game is brilliant. I love how they combined bioware's amazing single player design into an MMORPG.

The pvp is awesome, both warzones as well as 'world pvp' - although the latter I've had very limited exposure too. My first experience was when I was lvl 22 near this canyon and a lvl 48 tried to gank me, after his choke (lift?) wore off I barely made it about meter behind him with a sliver of HP left, force wave'd and he fell right off and died. :D Of course he went and got me back many times over but that's not important. >_>

Story is really well done and the companion system, space combat and different missions never leaves me bored. Combat was boring early level but once you have more spells to strategize with it became a lot of fun. My only gripe is I wish the crafting system wasn't so weird, but I'm still enjoying the aspect of trying to create these reusable consumables.

[Meresgi]

i fail to see this as a valid excuse to argue against lack of auto-attack. In WoW you still do nothing while you wait for the GCD to go off. Your character may get a whack in, but you physically still do nothing. The only time white damage does any kind of significant damage is at level 1, and thats the most boring part of WoW since you literally let the game play for you until you have enough resources to use your 1 ability. And this is only for melee characters.

You've never played a rogue have you? Their top damaging ability is auto attack XD

[Trichocyst]

So I've been playing this game pretty hardcore (weekends / most weekday evening) for about 4 weeks now and I have one question for you all: What are you all on about? lol. The game is brilliant. I love how they combined bioware's amazing single player design into an MMORPG.

The pvp is awesome, both warzones as well as 'world pvp' - although the latter I've had very limited exposure too. My first experience was when I was lvl 22 near this canyon and a lvl 48 tried to gank me, after his choke (lift?) wore off I barely made it about meter behind him with a sliver of HP left, force wave'd and he fell right off and died. :D Of course he went and got me back many times over but that's not important. >_>

Story is really well done and the companion system, space combat and different missions never leaves me bored. Combat was boring early level but once you have more spells to strategize with it became a lot of fun. My only gripe is I wish the crafting system wasn't so weird, but I'm still enjoying the aspect of trying to create these reusable consumables.

You should continue to have fun and not engage in these sort of discussions. I have a blast, too.

[Alderaan]

So I've been playing this game pretty hardcore (weekends / most weekday evening) for about 4 weeks now and I have one question for you all: What are you all on about? lol. The game is brilliant. I love how they combined bioware's amazing single player design into an MMORPG.

The pvp is awesome, both warzones as well as 'world pvp' - although the latter I've had very limited exposure too. My first experience was when I was lvl 22 near this canyon and a lvl 48 tried to gank me, after his choke (lift?) wore off I barely made it about meter behind him with a sliver of HP left, force wave'd and he fell right off and died. :D Of course he went and got me back many times over but that's not important. >_>

Story is really well done and the companion system, space combat and different missions never leaves me bored. Combat was boring early level but once you have more spells to strategize with it became a lot of fun. My only gripe is I wish the crafting system wasn't so weird, but I'm still enjoying the aspect of trying to create these reusable consumables.

It's great that you enjoy it but...are you 50 yet? Pre 50 pvp is descent i suppose and the questing was better than most MMO's. Like every other newer MMO, it goes to shit once you hit 50 due to faction imbalance and that ever stupid "pvp stat".

Raids are still buggy as shit. I've not completed a single one where bosses don't decide to reset, glitch out, or fuck us over for no reason.

Level 50 consists of logging on, doing daily's, queing for pvp or trying to pug heroics. The entire concept of the 4-man party size limits so much in terms of classes. 2dps per tank is just poorly thought out.

Every craft is useless except for Biochem.

I could go on i suppose but it's already spelled out in the previous 24 pages.

[Shuvo]

It's great that you enjoy it but...are you 50 yet? Pre 50 pvp is descent i suppose and the questing was better than most MMO's. Like every other newer MMO, it goes to shit once you hit 50 due to faction imbalance and that ever stupid "pvp stat".

Raids are still buggy as shit. I've not completed a single one where bosses don't decide to reset, glitch out, or fuck us over for no reason.

Level 50 consists of logging on, doing daily's, queing for pvp or trying to pug heroics. The entire concept of the 4-man party size limits so much in terms of classes. 2dps per tank is just poorly thought out.

Every craft is useless except for Biochem.

I could go on i suppose but it's already spelled out in the previous 24 pages.

Nope - at lvl 40 now. I'm aware people lose interest after hitting the cap, but really.. the game is designed as a single player / mmo hybrid + pvp, I don't think this is a bad thing. I definitely prefer endgame being focused on pvp instead of raids. And it's rather nice to be the hero of the game again instead of some faceless nobody like you were in othoer MMO's. If you don't like pvp, and don't want to make a new character to enjoy another storyline, game is probably just not for you.

Do people actually enjoy doing these scheduled 18+ people 3-4 hour raids several times a week? I tried it briefly in WoW + 2 years in FFXI (Dynamis etc) and it was such a drag every time, I would only hang around for the possibility of slightly better gear. Low-man groups that lasted for an hour or less were a lot more fun for me, and pvp/ballista of course. I think this game is probably more so customized for people like me (i.e. the instant gratification type games for casual/quasi casual gamers).

Maybe I'm biased 'cause I'm a star wars fanboy.

@Trichocyst - Yeah! /Brofist

[Zerocool]

For me, the quest grind started to kick in in the early 40s. By then all the side quests were predictable and boring. I mean it was even to the point where I could guess exactly what my character would say since they reuse the same lines over and over again for the side quests. By the way, end game isn't PvP focused. Unless you consider end game as doing the same 3 warzones over and over and over again.

Just wait until you join your first warzone as a fresh 50 with no PvP gear and see how fun it is against Battlemaster geared players. I can assure you, it won't be fun for you unless you enjoy being spawn camped. PvE raids are actually more enjoyable in this game, and that's saying something because the raids themselves aren't really that good. Other than that, you'll be doing dailies, dailies, and more dailies over and over and over again since that's literally all there is to do at end game.

[Astarael]

@Shuvo you havn't been playing hardcore at all, 4 weeks and still 40? not even close to hardcore, it takes 3 days of playtime to hit 50, thats with watching cinematics and doing heroic quests when you feel like it with a good amount of pvp mixed in. It's not a bad thing that you're not playing hardcore, because lets be honest, levelling in SWTOR with friends is more enjoyable for me than in any other MMO so far, but it doesn't take that long. You've been playing very casually, which is a good way to play SWTOR.

@others once you hit 50, you grind heroics for tionese/columni. full set of this in 2-3 days. Now you grind instances for rakata. thats 2 evenings a week, tops. Our guild group does both instances fully on nightmare in about 4 hours in one evening. Once you have full rakata you're set for pve, and never have to instance again until new content. Once you hit 50 for pvp, you grind valor in ilum/warzones until you're rank 60. Once you've done this, you should have full champion anyway, so all you need to do is complete the two dailies and then logout because you've finished all that's worth doing. I'm full battlemaster and full rakata, I like the pvp in this game, but i's not worth doing beyond the dailies because of getting grouped with 4 noobs even if you enter with a solid premade. Roll on ranked warzones with 8man premades.

[Astarael]

Just wait until you join your first warzone as a fresh 50 with no PvP gear and see how fun it is against Battlemaster geared players. I can assure you, it won't be fun for you unless you enjoy being spawn camped. PvE raids are actually more enjoyable in this game, and that's saying something because the raids themselves aren't really that good. Other than that, you'll be doing dailies, dailies, and more dailies over and over and over again since that's literally all there is to do at end game.

Hit 50 on my assassin 2 weeks ago, consistently pulling off 10-11 medals per warzone with ease, and geared up in no time. have full centurions with champion weapons and 2-3 armor pieces now, and i havn't played in a while anyway. It's very easy to have fun with a new 50, and even play successfully in warzones.

[Alderaan]

I guess my complaint in that i don't like to log on a few nights a week just for raids and to do some daily's. I hate the entire concept of "raid loggers". I think that builds shitty communities.

I like to be on every day, not even talking about oldschool FFXI playtimes here. I just don't see this game supporting that playstyle.

[Elvis]

I agree about the 'raid loggers' thing.

The other issue I had w/ SWTOR was that I never felt like I got to know anyone while playing the game. I know people can play w/ other MMO friends (all of mine were/are in TERA beta atm or waiting for TERA and/or KTERA, and didn't wana play TOR anyway, fckn Viets!) or their guild mates...but when I played Aion for example - I started out not knowing anyone. Then I got to know a really good group (close-knit, like 8 people) and we stuck together until 2011 summer, at which point Aion sucked ass more than usual and we all more or less quit.

I met people by grouping, world PVP (Aion in the beginning had some fun sieges), etc.

I dunno, a lot of those things could happen in SWTOR too but I never made any connections like I did so easily in FFXI and Aion.

[Ohemgee]

I guess my complaint in that i don't like to log on a few nights a week just for raids and to do some daily's. I hate the entire concept of "raid loggers". I think that builds shitty communities.

I like to be on every day, not even talking about oldschool FFXI playtimes here. I just don't see this game supporting that playstyle.

It doesn't now (who knows what will happen in the future patches), but end game is pretty much doing dailies and if you really wanted to - do Ops. Yeah there's the challenge in doing HM/Nightmare. But after you get a few pieces of rakata gear, so what? A competent group of people are still capable of one shotting most raid bosses on their first go (normal). If I maxed out my Bounty Hunter with Rakata gear, then whats the point in logging in with him again? Money is easy to come by. Crafting is a joke. When all of my team is done with the majority of the content, people start to do things less and less.

The best end game experience is leveling my alt at a slower pace. I won't complain about the story or the flash point stories (Kaon is still pretty bad ass), but I feel so bored playing this game on my main

The #1 thing this game is lacking is content. I can work with broken mechanics, and I can work with dick head pugs. But for fucks sake there's nothing really to do. They need to release more dynamic content faster. Key word DYNAMIC. Warzones, HM FP, 2 raids. - Andddddddd what else? (Illum can eat my cock)

They need to do what Rift did and release fixes as soon as they're fucking fixed and not save them for Tuesdays. Shit like Merc AoE healing ability update is being saved for 1.2 (what the fuck is the point of being a merc healer then? Get back to using three buttons to dps). The three month subs that are pissed off with the game probably wont renew the game because of how shallow the content looks like (more FP and more Ops) What about giving me something to look forward to?

I'm just really upset on how little anything means at end game. Doing shit over and over to get loot that I'll probably get eventually isn't fun (at the moment!)

[Alderaan]

It doesn't now (who knows what will happen in the future patches), but end game is pretty much doing dailies and if you really wanted to - do Ops. Yeah there's the challenge in doing HM/Nightmare. But after you get a few pieces of rakata gear, so what? A competent group of people are still capable of one shotting most raid bosses on their first go (normal). If I maxed out my Bounty Hunter with Rakata gear, then whats the point in logging in with him again? Money is easy to come by. Crafting is a joke. When all of my team is done with the majority of the content, people start to do things less and less.

The best end game experience is leveling my alt at a slower pace. I won't complain about the story or the flash point stories (Kaon is still pretty bad ass), but I feel so bored playing this game on my main

The #1 thing this game is lacking is content. I can work with broken mechanics, and I can work with dick head pugs. But for fucks sake there's nothing really to do. They need to release more dynamic content faster. Key word DYNAMIC. Warzones, HM FP, 2 raids. - Andddddddd what else? (Illum can eat my cock)

They need to do what Rift did and release fixes as soon as they're fucking fixed and not save them for Tuesdays. Shit like Merc AoE healing ability update is being saved for 1.2 (what the fuck is the point of being a merc healer then? Get back to using three buttons to dps). The three month subs that are pissed off with the game probably wont renew the game because of how shallow the content looks like (more FP and more Ops) What about giving me something to look forward to?

I'm just really upset on how little anything means at end game. Doing shit over and over to get loot that I'll probably get eventually isn't fun (at the moment!)

Well said. I think if this game came out 3 years ago, i'd be totally into it but now it feels dated.

Rift ruined me for TOR honestly. Going from their raids to TOR's is night and day. Hammerknell was such a well designed 20-man that everything after it feels generic and easy. Coupled with the fantastic UI and the class system. That's probably my biggest gripe is i hate hate hate being stuck in 1 class. I liked being able to swap on the fly to an assassin, bard, ranger, or marksman for whatever the raid or party needed. It's the closest thing i've found to XI's job system, which i still think is the best. 1 class system just bores me to tears.

[Ohemgee]

Don't get me wrong, the game is great. But I think if they took out the MMO part of it and just made a really good matchmaking/LFG system and called it KotOR 3, I would of been a lot happier.