Foreskin: The Exhaustive Roundtable

[Kuya]

what detail do you want? if I have a kid he's getting a bris, end of story

I mean, how do you feel that your religion justifies the practice? In what way? Obviously, 'just because' is not an argument or a justification.

[solanis]

it will be his religion, culture, and a part of his identity that he can never remove. he is being born into a community that's thousands of years old, and a bris is a covenant with god. I don't even believe in god most of the time, so for me as a father, it will be more about his place within the community than the communion with the lord, blah blah

Now you can force your religion on him both mentally and physically. Fantastic.

that's the plan. you can't erase jewish identity, he will always be "mentally" jewish whether he chooses to practice or not

[Mazmaz]

Is there a way I can block out a thread from showing up? Cause this thread needs to die.

[archibaldcrane]

He'll be so chosen it'll hurt!

loljews

[Kuya]

it will be his religion, culture, and a part of his identity that he can never remove. he is being born into a community that's thousands of years old, and a bris is a covenant with god. I don't even believe in god most of the time, so for me as a father, it will be more about his place within the community than the communion with the lord, blah blah



that's the plan. you can't erase jewish identity, he will always be "mentally" jewish whether he chooses to practice or not

Isn't it enough that his parents are jewish and that he was raised around jewish people? And fundamentally, isn't it his choice whether he accepts his community or rejects it?

I just don't see what circumcision adds that being raised by people of the community doesn't. Certainly, black people don't need to do anything physically to their kids to raise them in the community, and more often than not they will identify with the community in which they were raised. So what does circumcision add to this equation that makes it necessary?

Furthermore, do you feel children have a moral right to accept or reject their communities when they grow up?

[solanis]

He'll be so chosen it'll hurt!

loljews

an old thread in jewish scholarship is, "what were we chosen for exactly?" a lot of jewish scholars think we were chosen for suffering, cause we sure as fuck weren't chosen for safety and security from non-jews. being jewish means a lot more than going to temple and believing in god, which is something I don't expect goyim to understand or try to understand, judging from your glibness here

Isn't it enough that his parents are jewish and that he was raised around jewish people? And fundamentally, isn't it his choice whether he accepts his community or rejects it?

I just don't see what circumcision adds that being raised by people of the community doesn't. Certainly, black people don't need to do anything physically to their kids to raise them in the community, and more often than not they will identify with the community in which they were raised. So what does circumcision add to this equation that makes it necessary?

Furthermore, do you feel children have a moral right to accept or reject their communities when they grow up?

to answer this I'll give you an anecdote from something that happened over thanksgiving. my cousin is marrying a wasp, and over thanksgiving dinner someone asked her if a rabbi would officiate the wedding. she said no, that it would be a non-religious ceremony, and that she doesn't identify as a jew. shitstorm broke loose, and the poor wasp at the table was horrified because lol protestants don't speak to each other, let alone freely shriek about religion at a holiday table. jewish identity isn't something you can toss away because you decide you don't like it anymore or you don't fit in. it will always be part of you and your identity and who you are. the only way my son wouldn't be able to identify as jewish is if my partner and I got hit by a truck and he was raised by goyim foster parents or something horrible like that.

as outsiders I doubt you have the capacity to empathize tbh

[archibaldcrane]

Isn't it enough that his parents are jewish and that he was raised around jewish people? And fundamentally, isn't it his choice whether he accepts his community or rejects it?

He already told you, rejection is impossible, the superiority of the chosen people cannot be denied.

[Tyche]

it will be his religion, culture, and a part of his identity that he can never remove. he is being born into a community that's thousands of years old, and a bris is a covenant with god. I don't even believe in god most of the time, so for me as a father, it will be more about his place within the community than the communion with the lord, blah blah



that's the plan. you can't erase jewish identity, he will always be "mentally" jewish whether he chooses to practice or not

This is something I've never really understood about Judaism. Even if you don't practice or participate in the religion, there seems to be some need to identify as a Jew. It's as if it has transcended religion and became sort of a culture or even race.

[archibaldcrane]

being jewish means a lot more than going to temple and believing in god, which is something I don't expect goyim to understand or try to understand, judging from your glibness here

i'm glad you're picking up on it, because i'm doing it as hard as i can

I think the jewish "specialness complex" is fucking hilarious.

[solanis]

i'm glad you're picking up on it, because i'm doing it as hard as i can

I think the jewish "specialness complex" is fucking hilarious.

what specialness complex are you talking about? we aren't the same as you, that's correct. generations of genocide and oppression are in our cultural makeup, I'm only two generations removed from the holocaust, in which my entire family was killed. my mom was raised by people barely able to function because their whole family had been wiped off the face of the earth, these are scars that don't disappear in just one generation. antisemitism is perfectly acceptable nowadays too. a big part of jewish identity is knowing that whether or not you identify as jewish, the next genocide won't really give a shit whether you consider yourself a wood nymph or not. try to imagine growing up not batting an eye at the fact that your family is like 10 people, because everyone else was killed 50-60 years ago and there hasn't been enough time to repopulate the family again. this is something that goes a LOT deeper than if you study the torah and believe in god.

This is something I've never really understood about Judaism. Even if you don't practice or participate in the religion, there seems to be some need to identify as a Jew. It's as if it has transcended religion and became sort of a culture or even race.

yeah it's not just a religion, it's very much a culture. I'm not religious at all but I consider myself very jewish. idk if I'd go so far as to say race, although there are a few distinct bloodlines.

[Ksandra]

I just checked here while on break and saw something about foreskin and stem cells and face-palmed.

Cord blood is the richest source of stem cells, followed by marrow, followed by whole blood. Fetuses obviously have the highest concentration but foreskin isn't used as a graft because of stem cells. They don't shave your ass when you get an accident because it heals better, you know.

As I said, I can't find any info on it outside of vague comments, and that was one thing mentioned so it was all I had to go on. I admitted I wanted info so face-palming is rather silly.

Specifically, here are some of my questions:

How much does it help?

How big a difference is it to use baby skin vs. adult? (as mentioned baby is better because unbroken but how "better" is it?)

How much goes to medical purposes vs. lolwrinkly cream et al?

What happens if the whole US stopped circumcision when it comes to skin grafting?

What do other countries do? Is it better? more efficient? etc.

how much in demand is it for medical purposes? (a lot of sites claim baby foreskin is extremely in demand but they don't specify whether strictly for medical or cosmetic or both)

Can you choose where your kid's foreskin goes to?

a few sites who are anti-circumcision mention that it's to "put more money in an evil doctor's pockets" how much does a doctor actually make off of selling it? Does it even go to the doctor or does it go to the hospital? Is there a way around that?

Really I know little about it just that it gets mentioned a lot and when I tried to find answers to these questions I came up with nothing.

[archibaldcrane]

we aren't the same as you

as long as you continue to tell your children that's the case, it will be

keep prepping kids to be in fear of genocide though

[solanis]

as long as you continue to tell your children that's the case, it will be

keep prepping kids to be in fear of genocide though

we're not afraid of it anymore, just aware of the risks. my great uncle was thrilled that I wasn't given a traditionally jewish name, because he was sure the next genocide was right around the corner. can't blame him though, he was the only one to get out of his village alive and he lost his wife, children, and parents in the camps. super cool story right, we're so silly xD

it's pretty clear you don't understand and have no ability to figure it out, but kuya asked so I answered, w/e

[Tyche]

So, in the same way you can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, can you be an atheist jew?

[archibaldcrane]

I get that jews are taught, and encouraged to teach others, that they are different and should never forget it.

I just think that's ridiculous.

[solanis]

you can definitely be an atheist jew, I know like 5 of them

some rabbis would disagree but it's the prevalent opinion in the reform movement

I get that jews are taught, and encouraged to teach others, that they are different and should never forget it.

I just think that's ridiculous.

we are different, not because our genetics are different but because our culture and history is different. we're not goyim, stop trying to fucking whitewash us

[Kuya]

an old thread in jewish scholarship is, "what were we chosen for exactly?" a lot of jewish scholars think we were chosen for suffering, cause we sure as fuck weren't chosen for safety and security from non-jews. being jewish means a lot more than going to temple and believing in god, which is something I don't expect goyim to understand or try to understand, judging from your glibness here



to answer this I'll give you an anecdote from something that happened over thanksgiving. my cousin is marrying a wasp, and over thanksgiving dinner someone asked her if a rabbi would officiate the wedding. she said no, that it would be a non-religious ceremony, and that she doesn't identify as a jew. shitstorm broke loose, and the poor wasp at the table was horrified because lol protestants don't speak to each other, let alone freely shriek about religion at a holiday table. jewish identity isn't something you can toss away because you decide you don't like it anymore or you don't fit in. it will always be part of you and your identity and who you are. the only way my son wouldn't be able to identify as jewish is if my partner and I got hit by a truck and he was raised by goyim foster parents or something horrible like that.

as outsiders I doubt you have the capacity to empathize tbh

You didn't answer what fundamental thing circumcision adds that simply raising children as jewish doesn't already do.

And i'll take the argument that being jewish would still be part of that hypothetical person regardless of whether they recognize it and accept the community. But, do you think that a person has a moral right in choosing to recognize certain identities and identifying with certain communities. Meaning, do you think someone raised by jewish people, has a moral right to accept or deny a jewish identity or do you think that accepting that jewish identity is something that must be forced upon them at all costs no matter the resistance?

[Tyche]

you can definitely be an atheist jew, I know like 5 of them

some rabbis would disagree but it's the prevalent opinion in the reform movement

This honestly blows my mind.

[solanis]

You didn't answer what fundamental thing circumcision adds that simply raising children as jewish doesn't already do.

And i'll take the argument that being jewish would still be part of that hypothetical person regardless of whether they recognize it and accept the community. But, do you think that a person has a moral right in choosing to recognize certain identities and identifying with certain communities. Meaning, do you think someone raised by jewish people, has a moral right to accept or deny a jewish identity or do you think that accepting that jewish identity is something that must be forced upon them at all costs no matter the resistance?

kids should definitely have the choice to pick what they want when they're adults. jewish identity will always be part of them though, much in the way my childhood as a girl will always be a part of me even though I live as a man now. you can't just cut out parts of your identity when they bore you later on. this hypothetical kid is my son though, and as his parent I think a bris will be what's best for him, so as a parent I will make sure he has a bris.

This honestly blows my mind.

well, we haven't been treated historically as "people who read a different book" but instead as a totally different species, so how is it that surprising that our community goes beyond praising god?

[thetruepandagod]

what specialness complex are you talking about? we aren't the same as you, that's correct. generations of genocide and oppression are in our cultural makeup.

You are fully aware that jews weren't the only target during the holocaust right?