"I Am Not A Second Class Citizen"

[BaneTheBrawler]

But that is how ALL discrimination laws work isn't it?

That's how all laws work, not just discrimination. We operate on the assumption of innocence- "Innocent until proven guilty in the court of law." This applies to employers as well as individuals. It makes it kinda shitty for discrimination victims, but the alternative opens the door to massive trolling, oppression, and abuse. The trick is to balance the burden of proof just right.

[Yugl]

AREAS OF DISCRIMINATION COVERED:

*HOMELESSNESS/PARENTAL OBLIGATION
*GAY PANIC DEFENSE

To what do these refer?

[Milkster]

The gay panic defense is a legal defense against charges of assault or murder. A defendant using the gay panic defense claims that they acted in a state of violent temporary insanity because of a little-known psychiatric condition called homosexual panic. ...

In the gay panic defense, the defendant claims that they have been the object of homosexual romantic or sexual advances. The defendant finds the advances so offensive and frightening that it brings on a psychotic state characterized by unusual violence.
Guidance given to counsel by the Crown Prosecution Service of England and Wales states: "The fact that the victim made a sexual advance on the defendant does not, of itself, automatically provide the defendant with a defence of self-defence for the actions that they then take." In the UK it has been known for decades as the "Portsmouth defence"[3][4][5] or the "guardsman's defence"[6] (the latter term was used in an episode of Rumpole of the Bailey made in 1980). In Australia, it is known as the homosexual advance defence (HAD).[7][8]

Uses of the gay panic defense

[edit] New Zealand

• In 2003, a gay interior designer and former television host, David McNee, was murdered[9] by a homeless drug user and part time prostitute, Phillip Layton Edwards. Edwards said at his trial that he told McNee he was not gay, but would masturbate in front of him on a "no-touch" basis for money. The defense successfully argued that Edwards, who had 56 previous convictions and had been on parole for 11 days, was provoked into beating McNee after he violated their "no touching" agreement. Edwards was jailed for nine years for manslaughter.[10][11]

• In July 2009, Ferdinand Ambach, 32, a Hungarian tourist, was convicted of killing Ronald Brown, 69, by hitting him with a banjo and shoving the instrument's neck down Brown's throat. Ambach was initially charged with murder, but the charge was downgraded to manslaughter after Ambach's lawyer successfully invoked the gay panic defense.[12][13]

• On November 26, 2009, the New Zealand Parliament voted to abolish Section 169 of the Crimes Act 1961, removing the provocation defence from New Zealand law, although this change was more a result of the failed provocation defence in the Sophie Elliott murder trial of her ex-boyfriend.[14]

[edit] United States

• In 1987, Joseph Mitchell Parsons, who called himself the "Rainbow Warrior,"[15] claimed that he killed Richard Lynn Ernest to defend against a homosexual advance, but was unable to present any evidence at trial to support this claim.[16] The victim's family and friends stated in court that Ernest was not gay or bisexual.[17] Prosecution witnesses testified of Parsons' homosexual activity in jail.[18] A forensic psychiatrist from the University of Utah stated that the descriptions of Parsons' sexual history indicated that he "may have been the one initiating the contact and became angry when [Ernest] turned him down."[19] Parsons was executed by lethal injection at Utah State Prison in October 1999.[15]

• In 1995, one of the highest-profile cases to make use of the gay panic defense was the Michigan trial of Jonathan Schmitz, who killed his friend Scott Amedure after learning, during a taping of The Jenny Jones Show, that Amedure was sexually attracted to him. Schmitz confessed to committing the crime but claimed that Amedure's homosexual overtures angered and humiliated him. Legally, this defense had a very weak standing for him, since in cases of legal provocation providing for diminished capacity, it is required to have an immediate response. Since he had not acted until three days after the incident, legally, he failed to show any panic-based violent psychosis. He was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to 25 to 50 years in prison.

• In the 1998 murder of university student Matthew Shepard, the defendants claimed in court that the young man's homosexual proposition enraged them to the point of murder. However, Judge Barton Voigt barred this strategy, saying that it was "in effect, either a temporary insanity defense or a diminished capacity defense, such as irresistible impulse, which are not allowed in Wyoming, because they do not fit within the statutory insanity defense construct." After their conviction, Shepard's attackers recanted their story in a 20/20 interview with Elizabeth Vargas, saying that the murder was a robbery attempt gone awry under the influence of drugs. This claim was denied by the defendants' girlfriends.

• A transgender variation of the gay panic defense was also used in 2004–2005 in California by the three defendants in the Gwen Araujo homicide case, who claimed that they were enraged by the discovery that Araujo, a transgender teenager with whom they had engaged in sex, had male genitalia. The first trial resulted in a jury deadlock; in the second, defendants Mike Magidson and Jose Merél were convicted of second-degree murder, while the jury again deadlocked in the case of Jason Cazares. Cazares later entered a plea of no contest to charges of voluntary manslaughter.

• In 2010, Vincent James McGee was charged with capital murder for stabbing and killing white supremacist Richard Barrett in Mississippi.[20] McGee claimed that Barrett had dropped his pants and asked McGee to perform a sexual act on him, sending McGee into a panic.[21]

More than 1.5 million children live in families without a home. Further, between 20 and 40 percent of all homeless youth identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT)

A lot of children are put out of their homes and disowned by families when they come out.

[Mazmaz]

Homosexual panic is a psychiatric condition and yet it's not in the DSM-IV?

[Yugl]

It's sad that I jokingly considered that as one of the possible definitions "gay panic defense." The alternative was the submission of gays until they assumed "the defense mode." Quite ridiculous either way.

[archibaldcrane]

It looks like this case:

A transgender variation of the gay panic defense was also used in 2004–2005 in California by the three defendants in the Gwen Araujo homicide case, who claimed that they were enraged by the discovery that Araujo, a transgender teenager with whom they had engaged in sex, had male genitalia. The first trial resulted in a jury deadlock; in the second, defendants Mike Magidson and Jose Merél were convicted of second-degree murder, while the jury again deadlocked in the case of Jason Cazares. Cazares later entered a plea of no contest to charges of voluntary manslaughter.

is the only situation in which the "gay panic defense" was in the least bit successful in the US - and only in potentially getting one of the defendants charges reduced from 2nd degree to voluntary manslaughter.

Good for the gays.

[Yuri-G]

made it to page 9, stopped reading at "there is no difference between spiritual and legal matters." did I miss anything good?

edit: oh wow, we're on a whole other topic now. good, I didn't like that moose guy anyway.

[Milkster]

His face is weird but if you can get past that, great videos.

[Mazmaz]

His face is weird but if you can get past that, great videos.

Shallow as fuck like a true gay man.

[Milkster]

Shallow as fuck like a true gay man.

No, I'm saying his face is always contorted like he's angry when he's not. It's weird. If you can get past the pseudo-death glares and his mouth curled in disgust...
It's not shallow pointing out something that you're focusing on, visually.

[Mazmaz]

I think his face is normal.

[archibaldcrane]

Yikes.

I don't think this guy is the right messenger. I think that's partly the filmmaker in me talking, but he seems terrible.

[Alleya]

Yeah. Good lord.

Those videos are so masturbatory it's crazy. Who are they making these for again? Because this isn't going to persuade anyone.

[Demosthenes11]

in before milkster calls you both homophobes

[Milkster]

I think you have me confused with Solanis.

[archibaldcrane]

Also i cringe at the "blood donation discrimination" claim.

Noone is stopping lesbians from giving blood. That is about risky behavior, not orientation.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

[Milkster]

Also i cringe at the "blood donation discrimination" claim.

Noone is stopping lesbians from giving blood. That is about risky behavior, not orientation.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

No, it's about orientation. If you've ever done anything sexual, as a male with another male, you can never donate blood. It's in Red Cross's booklet you have to read before you donate.

[Niiro]

If it's about orientation then by that logic a heterosexual man raped in prison would be able to donate while a gay man that's never had sex could not.

Also, as said, lesbians.

Spoiler: show

It's about risk.

You can argue whether or not it's fair, but the reason behind it is clear.

[archibaldcrane]

No, it's about orientation. If you've ever done anything sexual, as a male with another male, you can never donate blood. It's in Red Cross's booklet you have to read before you donate.

Thank you for making my point. It's not about who you are, it's about what you do.

[Kuya]

I was under the impression we all knew homophobia has always been about what you do. When right wing homophobes tell you choose not being gay, they don't mean stop identifying as gay, they mean stop having sex with men.