"I Am Not A Second Class Citizen"

[Sera]

Because being gay magically makes you high risk for HIV no matter what you do. Right guys? Right?

I think that was Kuya's point too. I'm not really sure why archi assumes this. We've been waiting for an answer for a while but haven't gotten one. Obviously your HIV risk is entirely based on habits... Logically, a truly monogamous homosexual couple poses the same risk as a truly monogamous heterosexual couple does... not sure why anyone would want to dispute that.

lol, like most of BG doesn't

this, the internet makes us all painfully self absorbed, not just TEH GAYZ

[solanis]

100% spot on. Good luck with this battle though. Gays on BG want to fight every minor unjust to the teeth instead of moving on with life.

are you gay? no? then keep your mouth shut, it's not your place to tell us what we should and should not be fighting for.

[Demosthenes11]

I think that was Kuya's point too. I'm not really sure why archi assumes this. We've been waiting for an answer for a while but haven't gotten one. Obviously your HIV risk is entirely based on habits... Logically, a truly monogamous homosexual couple poses the same risk as a truly monogamous heterosexual couple does... not sure why anyone would want to dispute that.

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't transmission rates from sodomy significantly higher than that of vaginal intercourse?

[Yuri-G]

don't lump us all in together; I ain't said shit about no blood donations. though I do have my opinions, they're nuanced and it's not something I feel strongly enough to argue about. if anything, I don't mind the "discrimination" as much as I do the fact that a lot of good blood is not going out there and saving lives. and don't they test all blood for HIV anyway?

but yeah, it's not something I'm gonna get... wait for it...

Spoiler: show

hot-blooded about.

[Yuri-G]

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't transmission rates from sodomy significantly higher than that of vaginal intercourse?

they are. the anal lining tears much more easily and is far more susceptible as a result.

[Demosthenes11]

they are. the anal lining tears much more easily and is far more susceptible as a result.

that's what I thought.

It seems like it's a policy against sodomy, not gays. Obviously straight people can do it in the poop chute too, but probability etc

[Vuitton]

they are. the anal lining tears much more easily and is far more susceptible as a result.

This doesn't change the point being made though. 2 healthy monogamous homosexuals are about as high risk for HIV as a 2 healthy monogamous heterosexuals. It's just that homosexual men, as a group (not as individuals), are higher risk for HIV.

You can't compare individuals to groups. Groups are averages and an individual is not representative of a group's average.

(All blood donations are screened/tested, so what does it matter if a gay person donates blood? It doesn't according to my friend at the Red Cross who is a lab technician doing blood tests. It's just policy forced upon them from onward high.)

[Demosthenes11]

This doesn't change the point being made though. 2 healthy monogamous homosexuals are about as high risk for HIV as a 2 healthy monogamous heterosexuals. It's just that homosexual men, as a group (not as individuals), are higher risk for HIV.

You can't compare individuals to groups. Groups are averages and an individual is not representative of a group's average.

lol you really want to take people at their word that they are monogamous? I know about 25 women that would call themselves monogamous and have each slept with 4+ people.

[Yuri-G]

to be fair, you're taking people at their word with each and every question on the blood donation questionnaire...

[Demosthenes11]

to be fair, you're taking people at their word with each and every question on the blood donation questionnaire...

true, however the more stipulations and requirements you make, the probability of the amount of questioning not mattering goes up

[archibaldcrane]

What does monogamous mean? Not sleeping with more than one person AT THAT MOMENT (yes) or has only ever slept with one person (yes also but that's a square-is-a-rectangle argument).

Two dudes in a monogamous relationship will be HIV free, obviously, PROVIDED THAT neither one had HIV entering the relationship.

The odds that two randomly selected men who have sex with men, who would otherwise pass blood donation requirements, entering a monogamous relationship entered said relationship without HIV to start is significantly less likely than a randomly selected man and woman who do not have sex with MSM.

It's still unlikely, as HIV rates in the general gay population aren't THAT high, but when you're talking about mitigating risk you want that likelihood to be as low as possible.

And jesus christ can we stop saying "they test the blood anyway"? The entire point of discriminating against certain populations in blood donation is that HIV+ testing is not 100% accurate. If it was, there wouldn't need to be a single question relating to HIV risk on the questionnaire.

[Rhyis.]

Nobody would to want to get blood donations from somebody from South Africa either. Is it discriminatory? Yes. Is their fear of HIV justified? Yes.

[archibaldcrane]

Holy fuck, the rates in major cities is way worse than I thought.

A recent CDC study found that in 2008 one in five (19%) MSM in 21 major US cities were infected with HIV, and nearly half (44%) were unaware of their infection.

MSM = Men who sleep with men

Seeing stats like that just sadden me, it's so fucking awful.

In 2007, MSM were 44 to 86 times as likely to be diagnosed with HIV compared with other men, and 40 to 77 times as likely as women.

[Kuya]

that's what I thought.

It seems like it's a policy against sodomy, not gays. Obviously straight people can do it in the poop chute too, but probability etc

They specifically ask you if you've had sex with men, not if you've had anal sex. I don't remember if they specify anal sex with men or if they just say sex.

[archibaldcrane]

They do also ask if you've had anal sex, but that alone does not exclude you.

[Demosthenes11]

They specifically ask you if you've had sex with men, not if you've had anal sex. I don't remember if they specify anal sex with men or if they just say sex.

one would assume that one of the 2 men having oral sex together would also have had anal sex with another man. Can you get HIV from semen if you have a cut in your mouth?

[Kuya]

Yes, you can get HIV through oral sex. The infection rates are much lower through those means, however.

[archibaldcrane]

They specifically ask you if you've had sex with men, not if you've had anal sex. I don't remember if they specify anal sex with men or if they just say sex.

When they talk about sex, they are referring to oral, vaginal, or anal - it's all considered the same.

[Raldo]

Do you need to have a cut to get infected? The whole purpose of the digestive system is to absorb shit into the body... wouldn't infection just... happen?

[archibaldcrane]

Do you need to have a cut to get infected? The whole purpose of the digestive system is to absorb shit into the body... wouldn't infection just... happen?

Has to get into the bloodstream - any virus entering the digestive tract would have to survive the environment there intact before being absorbed.

But remember people's mouths have small "bleeds" all the time - most people off the street would have at least a little blood flow from a simple flossing for example.