"I Am Not A Second Class Citizen"

[Moosey]

nah, see, moosey is one of those people that says his interpretation of christianity is the only correct one, and that others are just going against the word of god, so you can't take their actions seriously. His background is the final authority.

So does that mean I can say you're one of those people who can't hold up their side of an argument so they have to try to take cheap, personal shots at the other side? I never said my word was the final authority on Christianity, nor do I believe that. I just feel that I am perhaps more qualified than the majority of the people who have discussions on Christianity, on this website.

[drwaffles]

So does that mean I can say you're one of those people who can't hold up their side of an argument so they have to try to take cheap, personal shots at the other side? I never said my word was the final authority on Christianity, nor do I believe that.

Then why exactly are you so thoroughly convinced that God hates gay people for having gay sex?

[ronin sparthos]

People who call themselves Christians give the rest of us a bad name because they don't take the time to read and learn and understand what they supposedly believe in, and become legalistic douches. All they care about is being religious fanatics who hop on the bandwagon because it makes them feel like they're doing something constructive. They ignore the very fundamental part of Christianity that is the entire reason for Human existence, and it's salvation. Love.

They'd call you a heretic and light you ablaze if they got the chance but I digress, the only reason you're able to even interpret the Bible the way you do is because people who were soft on religion or non-believers wrested some power away from the clergy. We've seen that throughout history once the church and religions get hold of power, they butcher, maim and kill people by the thousands and say "God wants this". The bible has many passages saying homosexuality is an abomination and God don't like abominations - his destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is often cited as one such example of God taking it upon himself to vaporize his own creations out of love, twisted frustration or some combination of the two.

Do you really blame people who call themselves Christians and try to emulate God's handiwork? The same God who is supposed to embody everything righteous? Whatever he does should be followed because he's all encompassing good.

And the rest of you who bash Christianity, you're just as bad! You look at the surface instead of digging deeper to find out if what these crazies are saying is actually true in their faith. I don't mean to make it seem like i'm picking on Ashmada, but it's a good example. Someone makes mention of something in the bible, someone else retorts with another bible verse to sling back at them, but neither has the understanding of the information that they're slinging back and forth at each other.

Below the surface? All it takes is a stroll through the Bible to see why people act they do. The same text that seems to have fights with itself over homosexuality is also the text that advocates treating women as second class citizens, holding slaves and executing people throughout the OT. Yeah, people say the OT was the pact with Jews but I say to myself does it matter? The God in the OT is the same God in the NT meaning he can be held for all of his confusing actions.

Btw what makes you the only person capable of understanding Biblical text? Would an almighty creator not have a text even the most daft person could understand clearly? It's like the text is designed to be debated and fought for centuries. It's a good thing I don't believe the text was penned or inspired by any such being because that'd be a cruel joke on the magnitude of cruel tricks played on man by the pagan gods of yesteryear.

When the Greek Gods sent Odysseus on that 20 year journey around the Mediterranean at least it made sense because the Greek Gods were pretty much people (flaws and all) with magical powers. One day Zeus could be helping you win battles and the next he'd be banging your wife and you'd just have to deal with it. Zeus didn't attempt to call himself the bastion of good, he was just the lord of the gods and if you had a problem with it you could simply just take a page from Kratos' handbook and give Zeus a piece of your mind.

What's even more amusing is that Zeus would probably applaud your audacity in challenging his authority as he has in many stories centered on the Greek pantheon.

As for the OP: I am not in support of gay rights, or black rights, or clown rights, or garbage-man rights. I support HUMAN rights. God does NOT hate fags, he just hates some of the things they do. He hates some of the things EVERYONE does. That's the big picture. We are all going to hell at this rate. No one lives up to God's standards. Except Jesus. He lived the life we should have lived, and died the death we deserve. Remember that thing I mentioned earlier? That dirty 4-letter word that people hate when gays toss it around?

You're a bigot and hiding the fact behind your God doesn't make you sound any better by saying he doesn't certain aspects of his own creations. God too once didn't like those "lower races" until many people realized that it wasn't God talking just some small-minded bigots too obsessed with their own grandeur to accept that the Indians, Blacks, Hispanics, Pacific Islanders and Native Americans were equal to the "chosen" white master race.

How many people heard "God said" shortly before being executed by the almighty Inquisition btw? I'm sure the screams of agony drowned out the important messages being relayed.

[Moosey]

Then why exactly are you so thoroughly convinced that God hates gay people for having gay sex?

Please don't misunderstand what i'm saying(even though I said it pretty clearly). God doesn't hate gay people. He hates their gay actions. A bible verse was posted earlier mentioning that. I believe that the bible is God's inspired word, written by men. I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

[archibaldcrane]

God doesn't hate gay people. He hates their gay actions.

the thing is, Moosey - doesn't that make you stop for a moment and think "why?"

Also, do you recognize the possibility that some words in the bible are were added or deleted by man against the will of god?

[drwaffles]

Please don't misunderstand what i'm saying(even though I said it pretty clearly). God doesn't hate gay people. He hates their gay actions. A bible verse was posted earlier mentioning that. I believe that the bible is God's inspired word, written by men. I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

And this is where we hit a brick wall, because the burden of proof is on you to explain why it is correct that you should unquestioningly believe in this text. Yet the only response ever touted is "I have faith", a response which no amount of reasoned argument will make a dent in since faith itself is the antithesis of logic and reason.

[Demosthenes11]

Please don't misunderstand what i'm saying(even though I said it pretty clearly). God doesn't hate gay people. He hates their gay actions. A bible verse was posted earlier mentioning that. I believe that the bible is God's inspired word, written by men. I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

so you admit you pick and choose what is to be taken literally based on your own belief, and that man, a fallacious being by God's own admission, wrote the bible.

[drwaffles]

so you admit you pick and choose what is to be taken literally based on your own belief, and that man, a fallacious being by God's own admission, wrote the bible.

"That doesn't count, since the men who wrote the Bible were divinely inspired."

"What makes you so sure?"

"It's in the Bible."

This is why I haven't debated religion with anyone for such a long time.

[bechyni]

Please don't misunderstand what i'm saying(even though I said it pretty clearly). God doesn't hate gay people. He hates their gay actions. A bible verse was posted earlier mentioning that. I believe that the bible is God's inspired word, written by men. I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

So he created them that way and then hates them for liking what they were born to like? That makes sense.

[Kuya]

Please don't misunderstand what i'm saying(even though I said it pretty clearly). God doesn't hate gay people. He hates their gay actions. A bible verse was posted earlier mentioning that. I believe that the bible is God's inspired word, written by men. I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

This is a cop out. Having a sexuality means being sexually attracted to something, and part of being sexually attracted to something means wanting to have sexual relations with that something. Gay men are sexually attracted to men and thus they want to engage in sexual practices with men. This is what being gay means in essence. If you have a problem with gay sex, you have a problem with gay people, because you can't expect gay men to have desires towards other men and not act on them like eunuchs. Straight people certainly don't have to deny themselves from indulging in their desires and neither should gay people.

Why would someone let their sexuality define who they are? THAT is ridiculous. Isn't that the argument the LGBT culture has been making for many years? Surely, you are more than what you choose to have sex with?

Gay people define themselves by their sexuality, because it is precisely with their sexuality that straight people have a problem with. It is in essence the barbara streisand effect applied anachronistically. If straight people never made an issue out of people having sex with other people of the same sex, no identity would have been necessary to create a group conscious for like people to identify with and organize themselves around it to defend themselves from attacks physical, psychological, and political.

[Demosthenes11]

So he created them that way and then hates them for liking what they were born to like? That makes sense.

God loves gays, he just hates them when they act on desires that he made them desire. That's love, man

[Demosthenes11]

"That doesn't count, since the men who wrote the Bible were divinely inspired."

"What makes you so sure?"

"It's in the Bible."

This is why I haven't debated religion with anyone for such a long time.

I miss the shit out of you

[bechyni]

God loves gays, he just hates them when they act on desires that he made them desire. That's love, man

Oh man I need love like that in my life.

[drwaffles]

If you have a problem with gay sex, you have a problem with gay people, because you can't expect gay men to have desires towards other men and not act on them like eunuchs.

I find it both amusing and very disturbing that a lot of the time the most vehemently anti-gay preachers or campaigners are the ones who, at some point, get caught with their pants down in the company of other men. I've also seen numerous examples of people who run "pray the gay away"-style programs saying things like "yeah, of course I had homosexual urges when I was younger, but I didn't act upon them!". How wonderful it must be to have such strong faith in something that you're able to deny yourself and others happiness and fulfilment.

ib4 s'ok, it'll be worth it when you get to Heaven.

Edit:

I miss the shit out of you

Don't you dare anything the shit out of me - I haven't been to Mass in over four years, I'm in enough trouble as is!

[Moosey]

the thing is, Moosey - doesn't that make you stop for a moment and think "why?"

Also, do you recognize the possibility that some words in the bible are were added or deleted by man against the will of god?

Whoops, had this whole thing written up in response to this and lost it by accident. Cliff-notes version: Absolutely it makes me think "why", and anyone with half a brain should question their faith. Your religion should NEVER not be an intelligent decision.

Our translated bibles have many differences, from themselves and the original texts, so yes, words have been changed. The Catholic church has even added some books to the originals that everyone else goes by, and Mormons add their own and take away some books too, they're not really Christians though so they don't count, but that's a whole 'nother discussion!

The only true texts are in Hebrew and Ancient Greek. Those, I believe, are infallible(dirty word, I know, thanks Catholic Church!)

And this is where we hit a brick wall, because the burden of proof is on you to explain why it is correct that you should unquestioningly believe in this text. Yet the only response ever touted is "I have faith", a response which no amount of reasoned argument will make a dent in since faith itself is the antithesis of logic and reason.

I don't unquestionably believe anything. As I mentioned before, you should not make an uninformed decision regarding your faith, or anything else in your life.

The Old Testament I believe on faith that is based on an intelligent decision to believe the New Testament. There is enough evidence to believe the events of Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection for me to believe it. Since Jesus claims to be the God of the old testament, based on faith and love for Him, I believe the Old testament as well.

[Demosthenes11]

There is enough evidence to believe the events of Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection for me to believe it. Since Jesus claims to be the God of the old testament, based on faith and love for Him, I believe the Old testament as well.

what in the fucking fuck

[Moosey]

what in the fucking fuck

Intelligent discussion, at it's finest, folks.

[bechyni]

Intelligent discussion, at it's finest, folks.

What he said actually makes more sense then the long winded bullshit you just spewed.

[Cream Soda]

Long live Tsuko

[drwaffles]

Intelligent discussion, at it's finest, folks.

That's fairly hypocritical considering the reasoning behind your decision to believe in the infallibility of the Bible is profoundly unintelligent.