"I Am Not A Second Class Citizen"

[Moosey]

This is a cop out. Having a sexuality means being sexually attracted to something, and part of being sexually attracted to something means wanting to have sexual relations with that something. Gay men are sexually attracted to men and thus they want to engage in sexual practices with men. This is what being gay means in essence. If you have a problem with gay sex, you have a problem with gay people, because you can't expect gay men to have desires towards other men and not act on them like eunuchs. Straight people certainly don't have to deny themselves from indulging in their desires and neither should gay people.

Your sexuality does not and should not define who you are, that is an absurd idea. You don't go around saying that's gay Don over there! Or hey bisexual Stacey! Lookey there, here comes transgendered Pat!

You don't do this because people do not define themselves by their sexuality. If you do try to do that, you're missing out on a whole lot more that life has to offer. If you try to define someone by their sexuality, you're just like racist or any other sort of bigot trying to define someone by a single characteristic that is probably different from your own.

And are you kidding about straight people denying themselves desires? Hookers, porn, pop culture sluttiness, alcohol, drugs. There is a plethora of things people try to deny themselves because to give in to it would be a bad thing. It's not limited to straight people or gay people either. Don't be so closed-minded

Gay people define themselves by their sexuality, because it is precisely with their sexuality that straight people have a problem with. It is in essence the barbara streisand effect applied anachronistically. If straight people never made an issue out of people having sex with other people of the same sex, no identity would have been necessary to create a group conscious for like people to identify with and organize themselves around it to defend themselves from attacks physical, psychological, and political.

It's fine if gay people want other people like them to identify with, but it should not be their ONLY defining characteristic, you make it out to be that.

[Demosthenes11]

"My belief in Christianity is intelligent"
"There is plenty of evidence that jesus christ not only existed, but is the son of god"

not sure if serious

[archibaldcrane]

Is it specifically said in the bible that all of the books of the bible (since they were obviously written by different people at different times and not even coalesced into what we now know as "the bible" until [i think?] after many/all of them were dead) are the infallible word of god? I'd love to see some verses on that, where men are writing "this is the infallible word of god".

[Demosthenes11]

this has to be the worst poster since leaf

[Moosey]

That's fairly hypocritical considering the reasoning behind your decision to believe in the infallibility of the Bible is profoundly unintelligent.

You have to take the bible as a whole or not at all, you can't pick and choose what to believe, because then you leave your beliefs open for contradiction.

What he said actually makes more sense then the long winded bullshit you just spewed.

Yet between the three of you, none of you can come up with anything to refute my claim? I thought we were having an intelligent discussion here?

[Chun Liroy]

This thread went from narcissistic retard to full retard in 1 hour.

[drwaffles]

Why do you keep deflecting attention from the real issue by rambling on about people defining themselves by their sexuality? I'm also of the opinion that people shouldn't define themselves purely by their sexuality (who isn't?), but it doesn't pertain to your actual argument in any meaningful way whatsoever.

[drwaffles]

You have to take the bible as a whole or not at all, you can't pick and choose what to believe, because then you leave your beliefs open for contradiction.

rofl

So you can't pick and choose what to believe, but it's perfectly ok to pick and choose which parts are to be taken literally and which aren't in order to avoid contradictions? It's the same bloody thing.

[Chun Liroy]

Yet between the three of you, none of you can come up with anything to refute my claim? I thought we were having an intelligent discussion here?

You think there is some cosmic superbeing controlling our every move, and you want to talk about refuting claims and intelligent discussions?

Scumbag god: Makes you gay, hates and punishes you for acting gay.

[Moosey]

Is it specifically said in the bible that all of the books of the bible (since they were obviously written by different people at different times and not even coalesced into what we now know as "the bible" until [i think?] after many/all of them were dead) are the infallible word of god? I'd love to see some verses on that, where men are writing "this is the infallible word of god".

The OT has been pretty much the same since at least the time of Jesus. The NT was compiled within the lifetime of the majority of the writers of it. I'll get back to you on bible verses concerning it's inerrancy. Also, thanks for being one of the few, if not the one that has enough respect to have decent exchange.

[zoobernut]

You have to take the bible as a whole or not at all, you can't pick and choose what to believe, because then you leave your beliefs open for contradiction.



Yet between the three of you, none of you can come up with anything to refute my claim? I thought we were having an intelligent discussion here?

So you are a creationist then? You literally believe that all creatures were created by god as they are today? Do you also literally believe that the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old? I forget was the story of Noah's Arc in the bible? If it was do you literally believe that he took 2 of every species of animal onto a boat to save them and only 2 of each species was able to repopulate the Earth after the flood receded?

[archibaldcrane]

You have to take the bible as a whole or not at all, you can't pick and choose what to believe, because then you leave your beliefs open for contradiction.

Are you saying there are no contradictions in the bible about how god desires humans to act or historical events?

[archibaldcrane]

I mean, because if the bible is the infallible word of god, god seems to be pretty confused about trivial matters, like:

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

among many other things.

[drwaffles]

I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

So you can't pick and choose what to believe, but it's perfectly ok to pick and choose which parts are to be taken literally and which aren't in order to avoid contradictions? It's the same bloody thing.

^

[ronin sparthos]

So you are a creationist then? You literally believe that all creatures were created by god as they are today? Do you also literally believe that the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old? I forget was the story of Noah's Arc in the bible? If it was do you literally believe that he took 2 of every species of animal onto a boat to save them and only 2 of each species was able to repopulate the Earth after the flood receded?

Inb4 Noah's Ark was a metaphor and not to be taken literally.

We're getting dangerously close to Kent Hovind territory here and I'm scared.

[Kuya]

Your sexuality does not and should not define who you are, that is an absurd idea. You don't go around saying that's gay Don over there! Or hey bisexual Stacey! Lookey there, here comes transgendered Pat!

You don't do this because people do not define themselves by their sexuality. If you do try to do that, you're missing out on a whole lot more that life has to offer. If you try to define someone by their sexuality, you're just like racist or any other sort of bigot trying to define someone by a single characteristic that is probably different from your own.

And are you kidding about straight people denying themselves desires? Hookers, porn, pop culture sluttiness, alcohol, drugs. There is a plethora of things people try to deny themselves because to give in to it would be a bad thing. It's not limited to straight people or gay people either. Don't be so closed-minded




It's fine if gay people want other people like them to identify with, but it should not be their ONLY defining characteristic, you make it out to be that.

You're either trolling or an immense moron, so this will be my only reply to you.

1- I already explained why a gay identity exists and why who you are attracted to is so important to gay identity. If you do not understand how oppression of gay people played into forming their identity, then i don't care to inform you on that point further.

2- Gay people may not go around saying 'Look at gay don, bisexual stacey or transgendered pat', but straight people certainly do say "Look at that faggot!" Or "Look at that dyke!" Or "Look at that freak!". But i guess we both know what you want to focus on here.

3- I already told you that people do define themselves by their sexuality, gay people do, and i already explained why. I don't think gay people need your paternalistic whining about how gay sex is wrong or about how they shouldn't identify as gay. They'll do what they want to, whether you like it or not.

4- No one said anything about defining other people by their sexuality, what i said was people defining themselves. If you misunderstood, that's your problem. If anything, straight people really like to define everyone else though.

5- Straight guys deny themselves porn? News to me. But you know what most straight people do not deny themselves? Sex with people they like. Doesn't matter that you waited until you got married. You're still getting what you want, since i'm pretty sure most straight people are not eunuchs, as you seem to want gay people to be.

6- A theist calling me close-minded. Funny.

[Moosey]

Why do you keep deflecting attention from the real issue by rambling on about people defining themselves by their sexuality? I'm also of the opinion that people shouldn't define themselves purely by their sexuality (who isn't?), but it doesn't pertain to your actual argument in any meaningful way whatsoever.

What is "the real issue" you seem to think i'm neglecting?

rofl

So you can't pick and choose what to believe, but it's perfectly ok to pick and choose which parts are to be taken literally and which aren't in order to avoid contradictions? It's the same bloody thing.

I should have explained what I meant by that more thouroughly. The majority of the bible is to be taken literally. The Old Testament is, for the most part, a literal history of the people of Israel. Jews. The laws and regulations were almost solely for them, to keep them a unique and separate people from the rest of the world. You hear about the Ten Commandments being mentioned so much because thats the part that should be a given to everyone.

Paul says this on it: "For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."" -Galatians 5:14

It's basic morals that are ingrained into every human being.

The non-literal parts of the OT, Psalms, Song of Solomon, etc..much of it is poetry. It doesn't make what it says any less true, but it should be interpreted differently. There is no sole, human, authority on how it should be taken either, so don't think I am saying I know how it should, because I don't.

[Moosey]

So you are a creationist then? You literally believe that all creatures were created by god as they are today? Do you also literally believe that the Earth is approximately 6,000 years old? I forget was the story of Noah's Arc in the bible? If it was do you literally believe that he took 2 of every species of animal onto a boat to save them and only 2 of each species was able to repopulate the Earth after the flood receded?

I'm a Christian. I believe in evolution, it would be hard not to. Contrary to what you all may think, I love science. It's always been one of my favorite subjects. The creation story has been and will be for many more years, be a hotly debated topic. I don't claim to know what to make of it, all I do know is that God created the universe, the earth, and everything inbetween. I do believe it was created as it is written in Genesis, but I do not know the timeline of the events, nor does anyone except for God. I think it's silly to really get stuck on that because how much relevance does it really have in our lives? I don't lose sleep over it.

I do believe Noah's Arc though.

[bechyni]

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Laws like these right?

[Milkster]

I believe it's all true, though not all of it is meant to be taken literally.

Your religion should NEVER not be an intelligent decision.

The only true texts are in Hebrew and Ancient Greek. Those, I believe, are infallible(dirty word, I know, thanks Catholic Church!)



I don't unquestionably believe anything. As I mentioned before, you should not make an uninformed decision regarding your faith, or anything else in your life.

I should have explained what I meant by that more thouroughly. The majority of the bible is to be taken literally. The Old Testament is, for the most part, a literal history of the people of Israel. Jews. The laws and regulations were almost solely for them, to keep them a unique and separate people from the rest of the world. You hear about the Ten Commandments being mentioned so much because thats the part that should be a given to everyone.

There is no sole, human, authority on how it should be taken either, so don't think I am saying I know how it should, because I don't.

What? You contradict pretty much everything you've said with each new post.