Obamacare, Healthcare, etc.

[Demosthenes11]

there's no way to get these companies to cover those with pre-existing conditions without the government saying they have to. The only way that is financially feasible is if the company brings in more money. Forcing people to purchase insurance moves the burden from the government to the people, and makes the aforementioned viable.

I have no idea what the fuck people find wrong about this. You get to choose about the government getting it's hand in too much here or the deficit being too high - you can't have it both ways.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

So ignore the pre-existing coverage issue, because there are other things to "test out" first?

Don't know why we don't just fix the thing that is easily fixable, forbidding companies from denying people based on pre-existing health issues. Then again, I'm not republican an asshole.

Wait...what? My first post after Archi's stated a plausible improvement.

[Demosthenes11]

Wait...what? My first post after Archi's stated a plausible improvement.

...your answer was to allow the government to tell companies that they must insure those with pre-existing conditions...

[Salodin]

Sure, apply the same rules in the employer provided market to the individual market, thus largely eliminating the problem.

Pre existing condition exclusions don't apply to employer based health insurance plans.

Wtf?

[Demosthenes11]

Wtf?

"The government should not regulate the industry"
"The rules need to be expanded to individuals"

lol

[archibaldcrane]

You have two options: Say "fuck the people unlucky enough to have these debilitating medical issues that preclude them from getting insurance through no fault of their own"

or

"Government intervention"

There is no #3. Pick.

I see you've made your choice.

Now own it. We've been doing it for a century. Your choice is the same one that politicians have been choosing for decades. It is the popular choice. You want to fuck over people who lose the medical birth lottery. You wouldn't be saying something new or radical in admitting it. Just stop fucking tippy-toeing around it already. You actively support a system which decimates the "American Dream" for a minority of citizens through no fault of their own.

Just own it.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I think I "owned" it by saying there's nothing wrong with working with the current framework.

And for Demo, saying the govt. should address one problem is not the same as taking the whole damn thing over.

[Demosthenes11]

I think I "owned" it by saying there's nothing wrong with working with the current framework.

And for Demo, saying the govt. should address one problem is not the same as taking the whole damn thing over.

oh great, this is perfect because obamacare isn't a government takeover of medicine. Look we all win! yay

[kuronosan]

Even though he always ignores my posts I sincerely wonder if Swampy is working with a functional brain or if he just simply doesn't care to read anything at all.

[archibaldcrane]

I think I "owned" it by saying there's nothing wrong with working with the current framework.

And for Demo, saying the govt. should address one problem is not the same as taking the whole damn thing over.

Addressing the medical birth lottery gambit is the one thing the government is addressing.

So... sweet.

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[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Addressing the medical birth lottery gambit is the one thing the government is addressing.

So... sweet.

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Uh, those 2,700 pages suggest otherwise.

[Demosthenes11]

please state how this is a government takeover if there is no public option.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I didn't say it was, but nearly everyone's posts on this board have stated that's what they want; i.e. my suggestions aren't the same as yours.

[Tyche]

I think I "owned" it by saying there's nothing wrong with working with the current framework.

And for Demo, saying the govt. should address one problem is not the same as taking the whole damn thing over.

Sure?

[Demosthenes11]

Then I have no idea what your problem with obamacare is

[Sera]

Then I have no idea what your problem with obamacare is

The Obama part

[Demosthenes11]

so let's review:

1) not a government takeover of healthcare
2) no change in competition in the insurance market
3) we agree that government coercion is the only way to get those with pre-existing conditions covered
4) it will save the federal government money

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

1) but it could lead to one
2) we'll see if employers decide to keep their insurance plans
3) no, I'm not nearly expert enough to come up with another solution
4) uh, naive much?

[Pirian]

1) Slippery slope argument
2) Why wouldn't they? It benefits them to have healthy employees even beyond the fact that it could be law
3) Neither is anyone, apparently.
4) You just said you're not an expert, and then you'll dismiss the work of experts. (Not everything the government has made cost them more money than they put in)

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

1) Because it rained today it will rain tomorrow vs. because it rained today it could rain tomorrow. There's a difference.
2) It's cheaper to pay the fine than provide insurance.
3) Okay.
4) Obamacare contains all kinds of accounting gimmicks in order to get the desired numbers. Pointing that out is not dismissing the experts' work, although govt. always seems to underestimate the cost of its programs.