Obamacare, Healthcare, etc.

[ringthree]

Ok let me restate what I said a little differently (which is actually more accurate to what happened/can happen). The government now has the ability to say "all US citizen must own a Ford vehicle or you pay a tax penalty". This would then force all citizens to either buy a Ford or pay a tax. Mind you, people who don't even have a license or ever want to drive a car would then be subject to paying the tax. Yes this is an extreme example, but today's ruling made this a real possibility.

There were specific examples in the decision that indicated why the decision is limited to health care.

You are just fabricating slippery slope scenarios.

[Kurokikaze]

New fb avatar

I tried. Gifs don't work on FB.

[Kuya]

Ok let me restate what I said a little differently (which is actually more accurate to what happened/can happen). The government now has the ability to say "all US citizen must own a Ford vehicle or you pay a tax penalty". This would then force all citizens to either buy a Ford or pay a tax. Mind you, people who don't even have a license or ever want to drive a car would then be subject to paying the tax. Yes this is an extreme example, but today's ruling made this a real possibility.

Reducing the cost of healthcare seems more important than a remote possibility. And if you disagree with the idea that a mandate via tax is worth it to reduce the cost of healthcare, than you're adopting a terribly fallacious argument. If you don't think that reducing the cost of healthcare is worth a mandate, then you should be arguing with something more tangible than what ifs.

[ringthree]

So no one's questioning why a conservative judge sided with the liberals to get this through?
Maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist though.

Roberts has been making many statements about the place of the court in the political system lately. He has been indicating that he has an interest in having more unified decisions, and making the court less political. The decision on the Arizona immigration law could be seen as a preface to this decision.

In actuality, and ignoring the ideological, this decision really isn't that much of a stretch when it comes to congressional powers.

[Kurokikaze]

So no one's questioning why a conservative judge sided with the liberals to get this through?
Maybe I'm just a conspiracy theorist though.

Um.. while I see where you're coming from I think the bigger question is how it was Justice Roberts and not Justice Kennedy. Kennedy who decided that the whole ACA should be struck down.

[Dantrag]

Take today's ruling which basically says the bolded, but why? Why must it be given to every individual no matter what?

This was far before the ruling but hospitals cannot refuse patients that need medical attention. Which if they don't have insurance, the bill gets passed to us anyways. This mandate is a way to make it so that everyone has insurance and at the end of the day cost everyone less.

[Sepukku]

Take today's ruling which basically says the bolded, but why? Why must it be given to every individual no matter what?

In theory, separate from the ruling, and why it was passed via Congress' right to taxation, I frankly feel that health insurance should be offered to every individual at affordable rates simply under the premise and spirit of Americans with Disabilities Acts (various editions throughout the years) and other health discrimination legislature. Its illegal for Burger King to refuse sale of a cheeseburger to someone based on their medical history, it ought to be illegal for health insurance companies to refuse sale of insurance to someone based on their medical history. Its up to insurance companies to find a way to work the cost of sick people into their business model. The individual mandate is actually the government aiding and helping insurance companies in that pursuit by forcing as many healthy people into buying health insurance as possible to help dilute the impact of very sick individuals on those companies.

[ringthree]

Today I found out that I have no conservative friends on facebook. Or at least any that are dumb enough to bitch about this.

[Kurokikaze]

AND IT HAS BEGUN... Watching CNBC on my trading software and Marco Rubio opened with "This is a middle class tax increase."

[Kirin]

In theory, separate from the ruling, and why it was passed via Congress' right to taxation, I frankly feel that health insurance should be offered to every individual at affordable rates simply under the premise and spirit of Americans with Disabilities Acts (various editions throughout the years) and other health discrimination legislature. Its illegal for Burger King to refuse sale of a cheeseburger to someone based on their medical history, it ought to be illegal for health insurance companies to refuse sale of insurance to someone based on their medical history. Its up to insurance companies to find a way to work the cost of sick people into their business model. The individual mandate is actually the government aiding and helping insurance companies in that pursuit by forcing as many healthy people into buying health insurance as possible to help dilute the impact of very sick individuals on those companies.

Might be the best explanation I've seen of the intent ANYWHERE.

[Sepukku]

AND IT HAS BEGUN... Watching CNBC on my trading software and Marco Rubio opened with "This is a middle class tax increase."

Better than the response from one Republican read on MSNBC, forget which rep/sen it was, but they said, "Just cause 5 individuals rule a piece of law constitutional does not make it constitutional" LOL Yes, sir, that is how the US Gov't works. When 5 or more Justices rule it Constitutional, it is Constitutional.

[Tyrath]

Today I found out that I have no conservative friends on facebook. Or at least any that are dumb enough to bitch about this.

Same here. It's really disappointing living in New england sometimes. Every post is happy about this.

[Kurokikaze]

Romney giving a speech on CNBC. So many fallacies I don't even know where to start. It's hilarious.

"What was not repealed today, I will repeal in my first day as President." this fucking guy... It's HIS plan. LOL

[kuronosan]

Better than the response from one Republican read on MSNBC, forget which rep/sen it was, but they said, "Just cause 5 individuals rule a piece of law constitutional does not make it constitutional" LOL Yes, sir, that is how the US Gov't works. When 5 or more Justices rule it Constitutional, it is Constitutional.

See, this is why modern politics cracks me up. It's all a matter of convenience. Cry about a law's constitutionality and that the Supreme Court will knock it down... then cry when the Supreme Court upholds it. Both sides do it, and it's amazingly ironic to see the Republicans doing it right now.

[Dimmauk]

In theory, separate from the ruling, and why it was passed via Congress' right to taxation, I frankly feel that health insurance should be offered to every individual at affordable rates simply under the premise and spirit of Americans with Disabilities Acts (various editions throughout the years) and other health discrimination legislature. Its illegal for Burger King to refuse sale of a cheeseburger to someone based on their medical history, it ought to be illegal for health insurance companies to refuse sale of insurance to someone based on their medical history. Its up to insurance companies to find a way to work the cost of sick people into their business model. The individual mandate is actually the government aiding and helping insurance companies in that pursuit by forcing as many healthy people into buying health insurance as possible to help dilute the impact of very sick individuals on those companies.

Don't hospitals charge crazy amounts to cover the cost of the uninsured? Doesn't this bill help drive down that cost? I personally owe about $10k in hospital bills after my daughter's cyst surgery, my hernia surgery, and having a baby last year. And I have pretty decent insurance.

[Dantrag]

Obama speaking now.

[Komm Suesser Tod]

Here's a question: congress can make things illegal, what's to stop them from making buying a foreign car illegal?

Oh wait, that would be fucking absurd.

[Kirin]

Here's a question: congress can make things illegal, what's to stop them from making buying a foreign car illegal?

Oh wait, that would be fucking absurd.

They impose a tax on it. As mentioned before thats been in place forever.

[Komm Suesser Tod]

They impose a tax on it. As mentioned before thats been in place forever.

That is completely missing the point I'm making. Congress has the power to make things illegal, to declare war, to legalize things, but they don't just go off on wild tangents and make foreign cars illegals, make heroin legal, or declare war on Canada because of the supreme jealousy we have over their many fine moose. Just because they have a power doesn't mean they will use for everything.

[Dantrag]

Bleh Pelosi speaking.