Obamacare, Healthcare, etc.

[archibaldcrane]

and roberts told you why they are different. A "fee" would be through interstate commerce, which is said is unconstitutional. a "tax" is perfectly within the scope of the president, on the other hand, as the constitution gives the office the right to tax

You mean congress.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

and roberts told you why they are different. A "fee" would be through interstate commerce, which is said is unconstitutional

Incorrect, page 34 of the opinion.

[archibaldcrane]

Right-wingers are try to spin this as a partial victory b/c we won the commerce clause argument. I'm just curious if they're in denial or if there is something I'm missing.

If their biggest concern was the ability of the government to fine people who didn't engage in certain types of commerce, then it's a win.

Of course, taxing people for not engaging in commerce is similar, but some people are sticklers for what law can be used where, and would celebrate the interstate commerce clause not receiving additional constitutional powers.

[zoobernut]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/peopl...e-of-obamacare

Hilarious. People moving to Canada because of the decision.

[Dantrag]

/facepalm

[Tyrath]

Only the third time thats been posted. Lets do it every page :D (I myself was guilty of the 2nd post..)

[Demosthenes11]

You mean congress.

err ya.

SOCIALISM

[archibaldcrane]

hay guise i herd theres this thing about health care and canada and socialism and moving, lemme find the link

[zoobernut]

Only the third time thats been posted. Lets do it every page :D (I myself was guilty of the 2nd post..)

Bah! I must have missed it even though I am reading the thread and trying to keep up with it.

[Olo401]

Wrong, according to the court they're both taxes. However, at the same time the court said mandates are unconstitutional. That's why all the news agencies got it wrong. That was the first section of the case they read.

Actually CNN & Fox (I won't call them news agencies because let's face it THEY'RE NOT FUCKING NEWS) got it wrong for the same reason newspapers published "DEWEY BEATS TRUMAN" - they were so convinced that it'd be overturned that they wanted to be first to say it.

If Congress passes a law that says "everyone must buy broccoli," then it's unconstitutional b/c it's a mandate. If it passes a law that says, "everyone must buy broccoli or pay tax," that is constitutional. Uhh?

Exactly. Congress has the power to levy taxes. Always has. Deal with it. Oh, and don't forget to remind those "strict constructionists" Scalia & Thomas that they blew it on this one.

[mightyg]

I just watched 15 minutes of fox news running clips of Obama promising to not raise taxes. Take that Obama you lying Socialist bastard!

[Drex]

If their biggest concern was the ability of the government to fine people who didn't engage in certain types of commerce, then it's a win.

Of course, taxing people for not engaging in commerce is similar, but some people are sticklers for what law can be used where, and would celebrate the interstate commerce clause not receiving additional constitutional powers.

It's also a "win" for righties because it prevents the commerce clause from becoming a catch-all excuse for the government to do basically whatever it wants. It's a win for the right in that regard, but a loss in this particular case because the fall-back "it's a tax, not a fee" argument passed muster.

Also, this is a reminder of how far right the country has shifted, when something this far from socialism passes 5-4 with plenty of hesitation and hand-wringing from both sides.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

It's also a "win" for righties because it prevents the commerce clause from becoming a catch-all excuse for the government to do basically whatever it wants. It's a win for the right in that regard, but a loss in this particular case because the fall-back "it's a tax, not a fee" argument passed muster.

But it's not a win b/c the govt. can just attach a tax to it.

If your a rightwinger which would you rather have? Everyone must buy broccoli or everyone must buy a broccoli or pay a tax? The former has no enforcement mechanism.

Even still, what Roberts said is probably dicta. It doesn't even carry the force of law. It carries as much force as if I wrote it myself. Although, his opinion is probably more persuasive on future courts.

[Kurokikaze]

But it's not a win b/c the govt. can just attach a tax to it.

If your a rightwinger which would you rather have? Everyone must buy broccoli or everyone must buy a broccoli or pay a tax? The former has no enforcement mechanism.

Even still, what Roberts said is probably dicta. It doesn't even carry the force of law. It carries as much force as if I wrote it myself. Although, his opinion is probably more persuasive.

Are we assuming that broccoli is also necessary to live? Because then you might have a point.

[Soa]

Holy shit how did I not hear about this before my lunch break, I really really wanted to hear how Rush spun this and listen to his idiot listeners being idiots.

[Demosthenes11]

But it's not a win b/c the govt. can just attach a tax to it.

If your a rightwinger which would you rather have? Everyone must buy broccoli or everyone must buy a broccoli or pay a tax? The former has no enforcement mechanism.

Even still, what Roberts said is probably dicta. It doesn't even carry the force of law. It carries as much force as if I wrote it myself. Although, his opinion is probably more persuasive on future courts.

Just look at Canada - they make their citizens buy things like Nike shoes, budweiser beer, broccoli, etc. because they have no controls just like us.

SOCIALISM

[Dimmauk]

Btw, broccoli is yummy. Obama can force me to buy it all day.

[ringthree]

Neither were health insurers until now, I guess that could change.

But let me put it this way:

Buy health insurance or pay a fine - unconstitional.

Buy health insurance or pay a tax - constitutional.

What's the difference?

In a practical sense? Not much.

In a constitutional sense? A slightly larger difference, but one that makes the difference in the constitutional justification, not in implementation.

[Kurokikaze]

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikei...did_it/c530lfx

^ very informative post that explains the ACA like you're a 5 year old.

[Jonny]

don't we pay a fine/ticket if we do not have care insurance?