Obamacare, Healthcare, etc.

[Sepukku]

Medicare isn't too bad - its age based so you can't really lose it. Additionally, its benefits are good (compared to Medicaid, very good) because old people vote in flocks and old people then get their Medicare pampered.

Medicaid (for under 65 people who are poor) is complete garbage. Poor people rarely vote. Much less is covered and you run into this limbo system of losing it and getting it back - for example, what if I start working a job while on Medicaid that will provide me health benefits in 6 months? Or not full health benefits until 12 months? What do I do? Suck it up, enjoy Medicaid for the first month of employment, but once my income level is changed, try to survive for 5-11 months paying for all my medication out of pocket, skip my appointments, and hope I have no complications or problems arise?

[archibaldcrane]

Do these people not already have access to medicaid/care or w/e it is?

Good question. Medicaid is for some poor (obamacare expands this to all poor making less than 133% of the poverty line) and some disabled. Unless your disease is crippling on a day-to-day, it won't qualify as a disability. For example, HIV is not a disability until you get full blown AIDS for medicaid purposes. Type-1 diabetes wouldn't be either, despite requiring medical maintenance care daily. If it was left unchecked and started to ruin you, then it may qualify.

Medicare is for people 65 and over, as well as people who qualify for Social Security Disability Insurance - generally for those who are sick or injured to the point where they cannot work.

So, to answer your question, if you lose the medical birth lottery, and cannot afford the high medical expenses to keep your otherwise manageable illness from allowing you to be a productive member of society, becoming disabled and unable to work as a result, then yes, medicare and/or medicaid may be an option for you.

However, if you don't want a type-1 diabetes diagnosis at 4 years of age to mean you'll be chained to employer-based healthcare until you're 65 or become an invalid, then you need Obamacare.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

[Ragnus]

I've yet to hear of a decent answer as to why we don't have a private police force/fire department/complete educational system/etc. Looking at health care through that lense makes as much sense to me as the rest of those.

I don't want the government to subsidize private health insurance either, but I do want free/sufficiently cheap, universal coverage. I'd rather it come at a tax dollar.

I'm actually familiar with this story (or similar ones). My sympathy goes out to them, and it illustrates nicely why libertarianism is hogwash.

But if you don't pay for the insurance that's what happens. The mayor is correct in saying, "If the city's firefighters responded to people who didn't pay there would be no incentive for anyone to subscribe."

I might just be reading your responses the wrong way but you asked a question, got a prime example that shows why it's subsidized, and then just brush it off as a segway into why it shouldn't be subsidized. I don't get it.

[kuronosan]

In other words, Swamp, under the current health care system either you have a pre-existing condition or your condition isn't covered until it becomes life-threatening (at which point preventive care is useless and now your expenses are even higher).

If health care were available to prevent illness from progressing to a worse prognosis and it was managed correctly then costs wouldn't be so astronomically high. The problem is under that system the insurance companies do not make any money because only people who are sick require the care and since costs aren't high there's no reason (other than greed) to charge high premiums.

As it is, most of the premiums goes towards overhead and not towards actual care. To put it into perspective, imagine you go to a restaurant and pay $1000 for a happy-meal quality dinner. Then imagine you found out only $50 of that meal was actually for the food and the chef pockets the other $950. Would you feel cheated? For $1000 you would expect high-quality ingredients right? Likewise, paying $100-200 a month for health insurance you would expect to have some decent coverage but many do not. Many people still pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for life-saving care that could have been avoided had proper preventive care been used. Now imagine that you cannot even afford that.

That's why the system needs to be fixed, and repealing this act is a step in the wrong direction. The Republicans know this, despite the fact that Mitt Romney has enacted something similar in his own state, but still continue to push for its repeal. The reason that Obamacare is so god awful is because it has Obama (a black man) and Democrat attached to it; this means it's just more politics as usual.

People in Europe (in general) are far more healthier and active than your average American because they don't have corrupt government agencies and corporate douchebags shoveling crap into their mouths and trickling cash from their wallets. They don't have an agency that claims to regulate food and drugs but lets everything with a name through (hi FDA) or companies that knowingly use toxic substances (aspartame, ammonia-based antibiotic fillers, HFCS, hydrogenated oils) because it sells and makes money.

Burn the root and you solve the problem. If you aren't willing to do that, the problem will never be resolved.

[Kurokikaze]

Private police force/fire departments/education... I think I just shit myself from laughing. Seriously, if you don't understand - off the bat why those things would not work or be completely terrible than what we have now (taxpayer funded) then I don't know what to say... lol

[Talint]

I might just be reading your responses the wrong way but you asked a question, got a prime example that shows why it's subsidized, and then just brush it off as a segway into why it shouldn't be subsidized. I don't get it.

I don't like subsidies. There are very few industries that need subsidies. Giant middle men who contribute nothing to the process other than just being there is a prime example of why I think subsidies are bullshit.

Libertarianism is a crock, but if your town has decided that rather than installing a flat tax of $75 to cover everybody in the town with a fire department and you opt not to pay it, then you simply cannot be surprised that they let your house burn down when. The subsidy for this town would be on such a small scale I don't think it would even matter if there was one.

[hey]

but if your town has decided that rather than installing a flat tax of $75 to cover everybody in the town with a fire department and you opt not to pay it

You can't opt to not pay a tax.

[Acevalefor]

You can't opt to not pay a tax.

That's the point. That town had a $75 fee...not a tax. People opted not to pay the fee then the media was shocked when the fire department let their house burn.

[Ragnus]

That's the thing though. If it was a private business what is to keep "Firefighter's Inc." from declaring that the $75 cost needs to go up every year because of an increase in "management fees" or declare that some people cannot be covered because of their particular build of house / where it's located? I know it's the same old argument but the private business model never results in cheaper services.

[hey]

That's the point. That town had a $75 fee...not a tax. People opted not to pay the fee then the media was shocked when the fire department let their house burn.

Well that's the problem.

Also, they didn't opt not to pay it, they weren't allowed to pay it.

[Kurokikaze]

That's the thing though. If it was a private business what is to keep "Firefighter's Inc." from declaring that the $75 cost needs to go up every year because of an increase in "management fees" or declare that some people cannot be covered because of their particular build of house / where it's located? I know it's the same old argument but the private business model never results in cheaper services.

Never. It's cut-throat services. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

[Kuya]

Just read Archi's last two posts. Nothing else needs to be said after that.

[archibaldcrane]

Just read Archi's last two posts. Nothing else needs to be said after that.

Well, we've been fucking over the people who lose the medical birth lottery for the entire duration of this country, plenty of people are afraid of change.

[Jer]

"What we've heard over the last few days is a growing concern from our Supreme Court justices about, perhaps, the federal government has gone too far at the expense of individual liberty"

In other news, it is important for people to have liberty. They must have the freedom to die if they are unable to afford ongoing medical care.

[Acevalefor]

But wait...the feds are going to far with health care, but everyone is perfectly ok with the patriot act?

[Meresgi]

Good question. Medicaid is for some poor (obamacare expands this to all poor making less than 133% of the poverty line) and some disabled. Unless your disease is crippling on a day-to-day, it won't qualify as a disability. For example, HIV is not a disability until you get full blown AIDS for medicaid purposes. Type-1 diabetes wouldn't be either, despite requiring medical maintenance care daily. If it was left unchecked and started to ruin you, then it may qualify.

I fucking love this shit. It's the same shit my dad went through. His diabetes was bad enough that he had to constantly check his levels and readjust them even during his jobs, which got him fired because taking a few minutes to do that every 2-3 hrs pissed off all the leather mill owners. He couldn't get any help whatsoever for paying for the insulin, even with no job, and tons of hospital bills from his levels crashing....and finally his heart gave out, exploded suddenly when he was over at a friends and he dropped dead at 41.

[Jonny]

But wait...the feds are going to far with health care, but everyone is perfectly ok with the patriot act?

its because people don't see the bill for the Patriot Act.

[archibaldcrane]

I fucking love this shit. It's the same shit my dad went through. His diabetes was bad enough that he had to constantly check his levels and readjust them even during his jobs, which got him fired because taking a few minutes to do that every 2-3 hrs pissed off all the leather mill owners.

Should've sued the fuck out of them.

[Meresgi]

Should've sued the fuck out of them.

No money for a lawyer honestly, shit was tough. I almost sued his fucking doctor because since he was so poor, they finally gave him a very small portion of assistance just for doctors visits, not for meds or anything else, and his doctor was overbooked, overworked, and an all around prick who didn't give a shit to begin with (not going on opinion from myself only, I knew a few of the nurses who worked at the hospital at the time who talked about the doctor. Also my aunt and mother were both nurses who had dealt with him)

I couldn't find any real case of malpractice though, and I think the statue of limitations is up anyways by now (been 4yrs)

[RKenshin]

I was reading earlier today about some potential alternatives to a mandate, which while likely not as effective would be less controversial and still help eliminate abuse.

Can't find it I remember two of them:

- Many different possible forms of a tax rebate/credit/deduction, possibly paid for by an accompanying overall tax increase (likely incredibly small).
(good luck passing any kind of a new tax/tax increase though)

- A regulation on how soon health insurance will be in effect if you've been without it for a long period. Similar to how home insurance can work; there's often a waiting period before it comes into effect. People aren't as likely to skimp on insurance 'just because I'm healthy' if they'd have to pay out of their own pocket for a year before they could get coverage if anything bad ever happened.
(doesn't sound too unreasonable to me)