Lieutenant Colonel Breaks Ranks to Tell About Afghanistan.

[bechyni]

u mad?

No he's not mad. He is the person to go to when dealing with anyone who has a shade of brown on/in them (except light skinned black people). He could google any fucking fact you need to know about them and claim it's true.

[Churchill]

Just realized I said glass instead of class, gogo wake up posts.

Anyway, depressing or not, if there is a real demand for honesty that is as honest as it gets. This guy is just a Lt.Col., which, to some may seem important but in my eyes his role speaks far more to what he has experienced or hasn't. What he does is basically go around and listen to soldiers bitch (about their gear). He speaks to commanders and generals who have no idea what is really going on and he speaks to privates and company commanders who either don't know shit or think their little area of the country speaks for the country as a whole.

That's not to say everyone overseas is ignorant, but soldiers bitch and people always think their area or viewpoint of a portion of the war is far more accurate than the next. Someone could easily say the same for me except I have no dog in the fight and didn't when I was overseas. My only job was to hunt and kill muj, could give two fucks less about tribal elders and ANP. Ironically, or maybe not, the people I worked for/with (all having came from other organizations who did give fucks about such things) often knew more about how our actions effected such things and were more keenly aware and took more precautions prior to getting our kill on.

It's very common to be told the problem is "here" by a regular army/marine commander, when in fact the problem is elsewhere. They lack (echelons above myself) the ability to see the picture from a tactical point of view. These are the same people who almost lost the war in Iraq (argue the good/bad elsewhere, thanks) You can do a search if you'd like and find tons of articles saying the Taliban are biding their time, waiting for us to leave to gain their land back.

I gues my point is, a lot of what this guy is saying isn't really new, but it is coming from an Army Field Grade, so it's a bigger deal than douchasaurus AP reporter #23. A lot of what he's saying is inaccurate, not in the super literal sense but he's ignoring the cultural factor behind what he's saying, the 'why' to the 'what' so to speak. Afghanistan is literally a country of dirt farming idiots. I know I make a lot of racist sounding posts, but I find the concept of racism funny as many people (including myself) find white negros who live in trailer parks and hunt alligators funny. Where I'm going with this? Afghans are fucking awful people. There are areas of the country that are more modern than others, but for the most part this is a tribal/village based country who is 500 years before a magna carta. Placing a democratic government in this country is never going to work, and that's why the Taliban thrived, thrive, will thrive. Now, could we succeed in Afghanistan? Sure, put Stanley McCrystal back in charge for one, two, dedicate 20-30 more years of 100,000+ troops and a lot more lives lost and you will start to see some changes.

What to tell the families of the dead soldiers? Hard to say, I always said nice things because regardless of what they died for, in my unit they died doing what they loved more the most part. Every one of us wanted to be where we were multiple times over, so to claim they died for nothing is a hard pill to swallow. It's true in a sense, but it's not something I'd ever say out loud because it shames their memory and it shames some of the great work we've done over the years. Regular army folks, yeah, pretty much dying for nothing.

[Churchill]

Afghan anecdotes

Me: Why are you guys not working?
Group of Afghan men: the work is too hard, so we sit
Me: But you don't have any food, why are you not working?
GoAM: it is too hard, it is summer, we must relax
Me: But...you have no food..
GoAM: We relax
Me: okie-dokey

Afghan Male: We cannot get pregnant
Me: Okay, let's go to the aid station
Doctor: Okay, there doesn't seem to be any problems with your wife or you
Afghan Male: then why can we not get pregnant
After much deliberation...
Doctor: How are you guys trying to conceive children?
Afghan Male: We are using the clean hole
Me: Um. What is the clean hole?
*points/implies anus*
Doctor: Well I think we found our problem.

[Elvis]

No he's not mad. He is the person to go to when dealing with anyone who has a shade of brown on/in them (except light skinned black people). He could google any fucking fact you need to know about them and claim it's true.

As an American, your country's foreign policy and mine, is going to intimately involve 'brown people' past, present, and future - your asinine racist comment aside.

I don't Google my arguments, but I understand how frustrating it must be for ignorant trolls to be completely disarmed when they know nothing of the subject matter (Ex. Israel-Palestine).

I don't need to claim declassified documents and mainstream reporting and the reports published by human rights organizations are 'true'. They are credible sources.

It's up to people who disagree with me to prove otherwise.

What your doing is throwing a hissy-fit because you have no clue what I'm referring to in my arguments. That's your ignorance to blame not the research I've done.

Be madder.

[Kuya]

Sure, put Stanley McCrystal back in charge for one, two, dedicate 20-30 more years of 100,000+ troops and a lot more lives lost and you will start to see some changes.

Doesn't sound worth it.

[Ragnus]

Afghan Male: We cannot get pregnant
Me: Okay, let's go to the aid station
Doctor: Okay, there doesn't seem to be any problems with your wife or you
Afghan Male: then why can we not get pregnant
After much deliberation...
Doctor: How are you guys trying to conceive children?
Afghan Male: We are using the clean hole
Me: Um. What is the clean hole?
*points/implies anus*
Doctor: Well I think we found our problem.

Please tell me you're making this shit up.

[Kuya]

The fact that i've heard about that so many times and in so many different contexts tells me he's not kidding.

[Egon]

So if a minority amount of soldiers says that we should pull out, we should? I'm not a big fan of the war myself, but you guys are acting like this one person is right only because you all agree with him.

Find a soldier(s) that disagrees with this guy, and I'm sure you'll spit fire.

[archibaldcrane]

It's pretty much constantly pounded into their heads that women are unclean (because of menstration) - hence the man/boy shit all the time and stories like that.

[Kuya]

I hope you're not dissing the man shit, because the man shit is the best shit. When women are not around at least.

edit: and available

edit: and not menstrual

[Churchill]

Not making it up, I have more stories but they involve missions and/or aren't as funny out of context of seeing it.

So if a minority amount of soldiers says that we should pull out, we should? I'm not a big fan of the war myself, but you guys are acting like this one person is right only because you all agree with him.

Find a soldier(s) that disagrees with this guy, and I'm sure you'll spit fire.

We are pulling out, lol. The point of contention this article/person presents is that we are pulling out and claiming victory/that Afghan's have the ability to control their country and maintain order, which the author says is not true.

If someone came on here and tried to tell me that the war in Afghanistan is just and we need to be there, I would spit fire. I would say say that to my face not the internet and see what happens.

[mallister]

lived in afghanland for nearly 3 years. if anything, church is understating the culture.

[bechyni]

As an American, your country's foreign policy and mine, is going to intimately involve 'brown people' past, present, and future - your asinine racist comment aside.

I don't Google my arguments, but I understand how frustrating it must be for ignorant trolls to be completely disarmed when they know nothing of the subject matter (Ex. Israel-Palestine).

I don't need to claim declassified documents and mainstream reporting and the reports published by human rights organizations are 'true'. They are credible sources.

It's up to people who disagree with me to prove otherwise.

What your doing is throwing a hissy-fit because you have no clue what I'm referring to in my arguments. That's your ignorance to blame not the research I've done.

Be madder.

So what I'm getting out of all of this is A) you still google shit B) you don't like white people

[Elvis]

So what I'm getting out of all of this is A) you still google shit B) you don't like white people

And what I am getting out of all this is:

You are anti-intellectual and characterize/trivialize research I've done as 'googling shit'.

'googling shit' isn't even the issue here.

It's simply my opinions.

Since you have abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING (just like that dipshit, bumper-sticker, freedom-fries patriot) to counter my arguments with - you instead resort to delusional attacks on my style.

Welcome to the internet, jackass, where you must search for articles, reports, etc. using a search engine.

I use Google if I need to cite a MAINSTREAM news article.

These news articles are available in print too - as are the human rights reports I cite. They all exist in physical form. How else do you expect an internet debate to take place? People posting solely on conjecture?

It's just expedient for me to post links rather than scan the documents and post a picture for people to see. HOWEVER, I have actually done that when the book in question was not available on-line.

See this old debate of mine w/ that banned idiot, Leif:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/872...=1#post3430070

When you make an argument you should back it up with facts and data. You should be able to make a compelling and insightful case that is corroborated by all the other shit you cite.

That's what I do (from my POV). People can disagree w/ me all they want, but only if it's my actual opinions.

As I said before, you're just brain-dead and butthurt that you can't actually debate me.

The end.

[Xno Kappa]

Wait...
So I call the douchebag's article exaggerated when compared to my own experiences in Afghanistan, done humanitarian missions in Afghanistan, talk to Afghani's daily and yet I'm the ignorant troll just because you googled some shit to fit your agenda when you probably never even seen an Afghani? lmao fucking ggs man.

[Elvis]

Wait...
So I call the douchebag's article exaggerated when compared to my own experiences in Afghanistan, done humanitarian missions in Afghanistan, talk to Afghani's daily and yet I'm the ignorant troll just because you googled some shit to fit your agenda when you probably never even seen an Afghani? lmao fucking ggs man.

More like, you came into this thread and trivialized the entire article - which you did not read - as:

Was this his first deployment or something? Of course soldiers are gonna bitch, being down-range sucks ass. People could be deployed to Qatar with a Chili's and they'll still complain their chicken fajita wasn't thoroughly cooked.

You then said, 'it's bad over there but not as bad'. When an American Jew was man-handled and assaulted by Israeli fascist police for simply talking (loudly, because there was a hate-parade going on in the background) your only response was tantamount to 'he had it coming'. This is the kind of stupid shit you say. So that is why I separate former servicemen like YOU from people like Churchill.

Smedley Butler was one of the most decorated US soldiers in history. His book was apolitical. The entire point of citing it was to show that there is a historical precedent for dissidents in the military. He's a far better example than the soldier in question.

And like I said: if you have the experience you protest you do, then why have you never made an insightful comment beyond 'lol/umad'?

I value personal experience, contrary to your insinuation. I take Churchill at his word most of the time. Why? Because he actually has something to say.

[Xno Kappa]

You then said, 'it's bad over there but not as bad'. When an American Jew was man-handled and assaulted by Israeli fascist police for simply talking (loudly, because there was a hate-parade going on in the background) your only response was tantamount to 'he had it coming'. This is the kind of stupid shit you say. So that is why I separate former servicemen like YOU from people like Churchill.

What the fuck does that specific instance have anything to do with my service? I never stated what happened to him was "right" but if a random Mexican gets on a megaphone and starts advocating for immigration reform in West Bubblefuck, Alabama he's not going to elicit any positive responses. That's not some stupid shit to say, that's just common sense.

I say the guy's article is exaggerated because even though the ANP are all clueless, there would always be a handful of people in every training cycle my unit was in charge of who genuinely wanted to make a difference. It wasn't any coincidence either that the majority of the few who were motivated had relatives killed, either by the Taliban or by our own troops. We were bombarded at a joint check-point by a dozen haji's near COP Jelawur and the ANP whose homes were in the region were some of the first responders to the situation. They don't care for an Afghani government but at the very least many would say they do it to protect their own families and therein lies the problem. The huge desertion rate for the Afghani security forces and the ANP who straight out don't give a fuck are mostly because they were stationed somewhere they couldn't care less about due to the tribal nature of the country. And a ridiculously high number of Afghani's are a bunch of fucking drug addicts high as balls 24/7 which doesn't help the situation at all. At the same time it's stupid to say the country isn't better off then what it was ten years ago. It's not just some stupid patriot bumper sticker shit to say. Was it worth it on our part in my opinion? Hell no. Whether it completely devolves back to buttfucking and opium remains to be seen and no one is disagreeing it more then likely will happen after we pull out.

No idea what your beef is with me in this specific thread because I think we're ultimately in agreement here unless you think this guy's article is a direct and accurate reflection of what's going on. Key clue: It's not.

[bechyni]

And what I am getting out of all this is:

You are anti-intellectual and characterize/trivialize research I've done as 'googling shit'.

'googling shit' isn't even the issue here.

It's simply my opinions.

Since you have abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING (just like that dipshit, bumper-sticker, freedom-fries patriot) to counter my arguments with - you instead resort to delusional attacks on my style.

Welcome to the internet, jackass, where you must search for articles, reports, etc. using a search engine.

I use Google if I need to cite a MAINSTREAM news article.

These news articles are available in print too - as are the human rights reports I cite. They all exist in physical form. How else do you expect an internet debate to take place? People posting solely on conjecture?

It's just expedient for me to post links rather than scan the documents and post a picture for people to see. HOWEVER, I have actually done that when the book in question was not available on-line.

See this old debate of mine w/ that banned idiot, Leif:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/872...=1#post3430070

When you make an argument you should back it up with facts and data. You should be able to make a compelling and insightful case that is corroborated by all the other shit you cite.

That's what I do (from my POV). People can disagree w/ me all they want, but only if it's my actual opinions.

As I said before, you're just brain-dead and butthurt that you can't actually debate me.

The end.

Wow it really doesn't take much to piss you off does it? I'm not trying to debate anything with you, you have one perspective, yours. If something doesn't suite exactly how you feel you insult it. Also lol at the personal attacks, you're so cool.

[notorious bum]

Elvis, I for one appreciate the research you do.

As do those who actually put effort into understanding the histories of the middle east and don't obtain all their knowledge from CNN soundbites or War Inc. mouthpieces that flood the airwaves.

[Mazmaz]

I liked Elvis before it was mainstream.