Feb. 14, 2012 (JST) Version Update

[Lordender]

FFXI is like that favorite restaurant you used to go to once a week back in the day when the food quality was great, atmosphere was awesome, service was A+. As the years go on the owner starts cutting corners, costs, quality of food goes down hill, atmosphere degrades, service becomes terrible but you ignore all of that because you really want to recapture the glory of that the food once was. You continue to go back to this place just hoping that this will be the day where the meal knocks your socks off just as it did all those years ago only to be reminded that your favorite place has become a shell of its former self and leaving you disappointed.

Eventually you wake up and tell yourself you can't dine there anymore because its just not as good as it used to be and begin finding the next favorite restaurant only for the process to repeat itself all over again.

[Ambrosia]

The only blind person is you for buying into the PR hype that "we'll only produce content if you give us your money without fail."

The only responsibility a consumer has is to pay for a subscription service when they are satisfied with what they are subscribing to, and to not pay when they are not satisfied. If you are so obsessed with the game and so terrified of the prospect of not being able to play the game that you're willing to not only throw your money at it endlessly, but also to try to convince others to throw their money at it blindly, despite SE's best efforts to drive the players away with absurd and redundant changes to the game, then you're SE's favorite kind of customer. Even if you let your own sub drop, you're going to try and stop someone else from doing the same? You fear not having XI that much?

You don't complain with your wallet, only your mouth and:
You encourage others to do the same as you.

Sadly for some the addiction is that powerful. Having to return to real life and face it may be too painful for some either because some or most areas they dislike or potentially hate in their lives. I could literally give you endless examples from folks I have met online in my 12 years of MMO'ing. When I was little (and up to this day) I play games strictly for the fun I find in them. Once I get bored I move on. I never get attached to pixels. I understand from second Zero that when I buy your product, it is a 1 dimensional relationship.


I understand that behind that suit and tie and smile all you want from me is my money and subscription (if applicable). I understand every single fucking game out there is made up of 0's and 1's that is it. Nothing more. I understand that for a few out there relationships are made, especially friendships through a solid foundation, may be what keeps some going. But most people out there use this as a ruse (meaning it isn't because of true friends but use it as a mask to hide their addiction). This is especially true for people that spend countless hours playing every single day for years on end.

FFXI is like that favorite restaurant you used to go to once a week back in the day when the food quality was great, atmosphere was awesome, service was A+. As the years go on the owner starts cutting corners, costs, quality of food goes down hill, atmosphere degrades, service becomes terrible but you ignore all of that because you really want to recapture the glory of that the food once was. You continue to go back to this place just hoping that this will be the day where the meal knocks your socks off just as it did all those years ago only to be reminded that your favorite place has become a shell of its former self and leaving you disappointed.

Eventually you wake up and tell yourself you can't dine there anymore because its just not as good as it used to be and begin finding the next favorite restaurant only for the process to repeat itself all over again.

Pretty much this. Except if you replace FFXI with MMORPG you get an even more strikingly accurate statement of how the genre (for the most part has eroded). I would quote this if I could but its too long!

[Spira]

Depends on the payment model.
With FFXI I've had numerous months where I pay but don't play, which in some ways is like making a donation to the restaurant so that i'll have a table whenever I visit.

More significantly, it's important to know that gameplay satisfaction isn't the only reason for people to fork money out for something, whether or not they use it.

Whilst its true a good number of people pay because they enjoy the game, there are just as many who pay because They don't want to play another mmo from scratch, or because they want to support SE or FFXI, or because they like playing a cat girl, or because they happen to like the way beetles have 1 foot reversed.

So what I'm getting at is that it's easy to see the rational side of a buy, but the truth is that all buys are emotional. The difference is how easy you can justify it to others, and the reality is that you don't even have to

[Mikus]

After XI, more specifically after the XIV launch I'll never play another SE Tanaka MMO.

I just found out that the guy that has caused so much anger was the producer and battle designer for Chrono Cross. How far his downfall has been....

[Kaylia]

Chrono Cross' battle system added unneeded complexity to CT's system. It wasnt fun to use double tech/triple tech anymore.

[Lordender]

Games are nothing more than entertainment to me, I'm not going to sit there and shell out money for something I wouldn't enjoy no matter how much nostalgia it once offered me. Make good content, I'll play it, eat it up like the rest of the masses, make shit content I'll cancel and laugh at others who continue throwing money at something that they clearly don't like and just don't want to admit just how addicted they are.

Funny fact, you could get into Rift, WoW, SW:ToR and be level capped, raiding at the highest levels if you started today before SE puts out another content patch, you probably would enjoy yourself a lot more rather than playing the "could've, should've, would've" game that is FFXI. I see a lot of people on these forums wishing SE would put out a new expansion, so how do you go about getting them to do it?

Stop paying them, they will then say "woah, maybe what we're doing is boring/stale, we need to give the game a much needed shot in the arm!" then you will get your expansion, SE has never, ever done anything drastic the entire time they've run FFXI until sub numbers took a dive. Continuing to pay monthly just tells them you're happy with worse content after revamps, nerfs all across the board, trials that make even the most sane person want buy a gun and go on a shooting spree.

I'm not saying everyone falls into this category, some people do enjoy FFXI even in its current state, I mean if you're one of those people who clearly don't enjoy the game right now then quit paying them, its so simple and it will send a greater message that doesn't even have to be lost in the 1000's of trolls that exist on the official forums or retarded community reps.

[Lucavi]

Depends on the payment model.
With FFXI I've had numerous months where I pay but don't play, which in some ways is like making a donation to the restaurant so that i'll have a table whenever I visit.

More significantly, it's important to know that gameplay satisfaction isn't the only reason for people to fork money out for something, whether or not they use it.

Whilst its true a good number of people pay because they enjoy the game, there are just as many who pay because They don't want to play another mmo from scratch, or because they want to support SE or FFXI, or because they like playing a cat girl, or because they happen to like the way beetles have 1 foot reversed.

So what I'm getting at is that it's easy to see the rational side of a buy, but the truth is that all buys are emotional. The difference is how easy you can justify it to others, and the reality is that you don't even have to

Anyone that plays this game out of general love for the game, more power to them. If the actual game itself is that great to someone, then by all means, pay away! But if you want to continue to throw money at a company that's making terrible decisions out of "brand loyalty", "That Final Fantasy feeling", "my linkshellmates" or whatever else of a reason you can come up with, that's cool, too. Again, as I said, if you're the type of person willing to continuously pay for a monthly subscription-based product, regardless of whether you are either playing or enjoying the product, then you are SE's favorite kind of customer.

Just don't expect others to do the same, and, for God's sake, don't start begging others not to unsub because you're terrified that you won't have your precious fix anymore if enough people leave. Have some goddamn pride in yourself.

[Spira]

i agree on that point. sometimes its easy to see where the game's flaws are but pay or don't pay, people can't expect everyone else to hold the game to their standards and have them act the same way.

i don't care when people unsub from the game and even if I'm concerned that them doing so might affect the dev process negatively, its not like i actually know better to call them out for it. i think the whole "if you sub/if you unsub" cause and effect argument is stupid to begin with, because thats not the only factor that drives dev direction in this game, and i'm pretty sure it isn't the main one either, because unsubbing may only show your dissatisfaction (if thats your reason) for the game, but doesn't point out what you like or don't like. Think of it as a meta score of sorts. Only problem is, you can like how things are going and not be subbed, or dislike and still be subbed.

The link is not causative and thus people shouldn't be using subbing or not subbing to show their approval of anything. Voicing it out clearly makes a lot more sense. Of course, being subbed means you have a bigger voice. but if you can't access OF, then send letters in or something.

[Mikus]

Chrono Cross' battle system added unseeded complexity to CT's system. It wasnt fun to use double tech/triple tech anymore.

I never played CT but am enjoying CC so far. I guess Tanaka's fail has always been there to some degree....

[Churchill]

I play because I am bored at the moment, I don't generally play if I am not bored. I use FFXI as a means to save money, as it's only ~42$ a month compared to buying a new game every couple of weeks/month @60+$.

Chrono Trigger shits on CC though.

[Spira]

I never played CT but am enjoying CC so far. I guess Tanaka's fail has always been there to some degree....

wait till you get to the last boss.

[Mikus]

I play because I am bored at the moment, I don't generally play if I am not bored. I use FFXI as a means to save money, as it's only ~42$ a month compared to buying a new game every couple of weeks/month @60+$.

Chrono Trigger shits on CC though.

I kept playing FFXI for the same reason even when I wasn't all that into it. I only paid for one account so $15/month was much better than getting new games. Last 360 game I bought was Deus Ex. While tons of fun, I beat it in a few weeks. I can't spend $60+/month on games. I started playing Lineage 2 since it's free. It's not bad. I'm not unhappy I downloaded it and am trying it as it gives me somewhat of that ffxi/mmo fix.

I was considering getting the FF/CT ps1 game. Sounds like I wouldn't be disappointed.

[Lucavi]

i don't care when people unsub from the game and even if I'm concerned that them doing so might affect the dev process negatively, its not like i actually know better to call them out for it. i think the whole "if you sub/if you unsub" cause and effect argument is stupid to begin with, because thats not the only factor that drives dev direction in this game, and i'm pretty sure it isn't the main one either, because unsubbing may only show your dissatisfaction (if thats your reason) for the game, but doesn't point out what you like or don't like. Think of it as a meta score of sorts. Only problem is, you can like how things are going and not be subbed, or dislike and still be subbed.

Many of the newer MMOs have a list of choices you can select when unsubbing, determining what you didn't like about the game or what made you decide to leave. They also have comments sections so you can write freely about what you did and didn't like. Its good to see that some things are changing within the market.

@Church: Holy shit. $42 a month? How many mules do you have?

[Necronus]

Many of the newer MMOs have a list of choices you can select when unsubbing, determining what you didn't like about the game or what made you decide to leave. They also have comments sections so you can write freely about what you did and didn't like. Its good to see that some things are changing within the market.

@Church: Holy shit. $42 a month? How many mules do you have?

Sounds more like 3 accounts / multiboxing as opposed to mules.

[Lucavi]

Always thought that was mildly amusing.

"I love this game so much, Im'a pay for it 3 times each month!"

MMO companies have the best fans.

[NynJa]

Or its because people actually want to play the game at offpeak hours instead of sitting around in jeuno with their thumb up their ass waiting for their friends to log on to do something.

[Lordender]

How else do you send a message to a company thats in the business of making money when you become disatisified with the product? stop paying them, don't buy their products, remember, SE only cares about money, IE their bottom line, if they really cared about what you think you wouldn't see them push some of these ridiculous design choices. Lets say you're a really "passionate player" of XI and really want to give feedback that you think is going to help them:

You post a well thought-out, non rage, valid post on the official forums that chronicles big issues, some people on this forum have made such posts over there numerous of times.

1. A community rep perceives it as trolling and flat out deletes it.
2. The post gets buried under 100's of replies from trolls over a two-week period and gets closed.
3. The community rep chimes in with something they got from the dev team on the issue that just enrages everyone even more because it can't/won't be addressed due to "BARANCE!"
4. You get lucky and the dev team thinks about adjusting it months if not years down the road.

In the end nothing changes.

If enough disgruntled players just said "eh fuck it!" cancel their subs they would start taking feedback more seriously. I remember when Blizzard(GhostCrawler) basically told the playerbase "be better at heroic dungeons, they're supposed to be hard! stop QQ'ing" at the start of Cataclysm, the subs took a major dive, not only did Blizzard backtrack on everything they did, they gave players a buff plus nerfed dungeons, that alone tells you subs are the only thing that matters in these games to a company regardless of all the PR bullshit they try to feed you. Disgruntled, don't like the way the game is going? send them a msg the correct way, a way that cannot be ignored because they watch sub numbers very closely, the proof is in the pudding.

[Churchill]

I don't like it much at all, but I'm getting my characters setup for school, capping their fishing/getting GP for Ebisu's and whatnot. If the game still sucks then, I'll do what every Ebisu fisher with more than 1 rod does, and if it doesn't and gets more playable then I'll use it for myself

[Lucavi]

Or its because people actually want to play the game at offpeak hours instead of sitting around in jeuno with their thumb up their ass waiting for their friends to log on to do something.

Sounds like a big problem with the game, pal, and yet some players are still willing to make it the most expensive monthly sub MMO around.

Again, SE has the best fans.

Subs are the most important thing to a MMO company, and you've got a few players in most major MMOs multiboxing and raking in the cash for the company. Its not XI-exclusive, though: I remember a few shammy multiboxers in WoW BGs, terrorizing the land. I'm way too cheap for that, though, but more more power to those who do it.

[mactabilis]

Thing is, XI is likely still pulling in solid money. Supposedly they have what, 350k or so subs? At $13 a month, that's around $4.5M. According to their financials, the Digital Entertainment division had an operating income of 7,781 million yen, or a little under $99 million, for a six-month period.
If they averaged around $16.5M/mo from games, and XI is probably consistently netting them $3-4M in profit every month, then it's a significant source of income that they'd not likely just want to let slide.

My eyesight isn't what it used to be, but it looks like that 350k is from early 2010? It looks like a huge drop from 09-10. There is no way subs haven't gone down even more in that time, else they wouldn't have merged servers. Judging from my memory of /sea all over time that's pretty obvious too. Also you'd think "optional service" types like server transfer and mules is way down now. The point isn't to argue that it's not a large intake for them still, but this past year and this update is just not going to cut it going forward. As far as those telling ppl don't cancel despite they are hating the game, cause it would make the game worse are you serious?? Let them move on.

I cancelled in December after realizing I had no desire to play even a week into 99 cap. I get that the genre is stagnant as far as alternatives, at least till GW2. Still, for me no MMO is a much needed break. I'll probly only keep up with the new update notes. You must realize their frustration comes from SE putting the resources from 11 subs into keeping 14 (a game they don't play) afloat. It's not about letting 11 die so much as SE believes those subs will put up with anything and keep paying, so why bother putting resources into new shit? If SE is proven wrong, under your theory it will do something drastic like announce new add ons when subs drop.

Or they'd end updates, but that's pretty much no change from now...As for SE not connecting the dots as to reasons ppl quit, how dense can they be to need such excuses? If they care so much, they can add a feedback option when you cancel, or use common sense; ppl quit when they stop having fun, lack of new content etc. I won't defend them all, half don't even know what they want or want to go back to setting alarms to idle in DA. But many do give IMO spot-on ideas to improve the game on that forum before quitting, only to be ignored, deleted, or banned.