Neo Nyzul Isle (Will FFXI continue? Find out on the next FFXI XP Pack!)

[Gokku]

This NM is not listed on the BG wiki but it does spawn in nyzul *im pretty sure* Picolaton * thought is was a normal bird but since it didnt die in 2 ws's i went to look it up.

[Jem]

DATs and Fillmode definitely aren't auto-win. In our last 12 runs we're 7/12 for 100 with all the fails being 96+. But prior to that we were 4/20. So it's swings and roundabouts really as our number of floor clears hasn't really changed.

DATs and Fillmode give you a good chance of 100 if you are well organised, competent and decently geared. If all our group were marginally worse geared or slightly worse players then our success rate would be garbage.

Like I've said before though, even if the event was easier and required no tools then the people who currently cheat still would anyway. It would just make it more accessible to those who don't cheat. Would I personally still use fillmode and DAT edits if they weren't necessary? Yes to fillmode, DAT edits depends on how much of a pain Order floors were.

For me personally I like Nyzul the way it is even though it requires cheating. It's sufficiently challenging and fun without drops being too whorish to get for us. If it was easier, it probably wouldn't be as fun. It definitely wouldn't have been (for me personally anyway) if we had just curbstomped the content and capped out really quick. I'll actually miss Nyzul when we cap on gear.

I understand those who do want a nerf though because I realise we're slightly priviledged by the gear/players/jobs we have available to us. Even one underperforming player be it through incompetence/gear/job can really hinder your success rate.


EDIT: Have definitely come across Picolaton too.

[Alkimi]

If they wanted to make it completely fair and have people getting gear at the rate they intended they could probably do:

- Remove the 'Move to floor ???' option and force groups to progress 1 floor at a time.
- Progress is saved but only on the party leader's runic disc. Once you hit 100 the runic disc is reset to floor 1.
- Remove all Astarium features.

Assuming 1-2 drops from FL100 boss you would be looking at just over a year to get a total of 90 FL100 drops for your group of 6 if using all available tags.

[Byrthnoth]

This NM is not listed on the BG wiki but it does spawn in nyzul *im pretty sure* Picolaton * thought is was a normal bird but since it didnt die in 2 ws's i went to look it up.

It doesn't have a page, but is listed on the main NI page as a 61-79 NM.

[dasva]

Duping items in salvage didn't garuntee wins either or drops for that matter but it sure as hell held back and adjustments so using the whole you sometimes lose as a counter argument now doesn't really hold water... SE doesn't give 2 damns about your win ratio. Hell doubt they know it. What they see is how much gear and alex is getting out there

[Yuffy~]

Over the course of a year or two? Sure.

Ever thought that console players could do like mediocre players and just join a group of 4-5 other PC players?

It's a MMO guys, just in case anyone forgot. Console players aren't stopped by the way Nyzul is now.

[ikariiiii]

did 4 runs yesterday with vanilla ffxi just to try, zero relics, 1 empy 99, 3/4 100 wins, the first run was a flunk cause of a hidden same time lamp on a massive floor

[shaggnix]

did 4 runs yesterday with vanilla ffxi just to try, zero relics, 1 empy 99, 3/4 100 wins, the first run was a flunk cause of a hidden same time lamp on a massive floor

does vanilla mean no clipper/flee hack, or no 3pt at all?

[Slycer]

If they wanted to make it completely fair and have people getting gear at the rate they intended they could probably do:

Actually if they wanted to make it COMPLETELY fair, they would never have added gear as good as Thaumas/Nares/Phorcys to a luck-upon-luck-upon-luck-upon-luck-(...)-based event such as Nyzul. Shoulda been in Legion or something (as stupid as I think Legion is, I think people would have cared more if decent stuff actually dropped there). I think I said somewhere earlier in the thread, but the gear that drops from F80 now should drop from F100, and the progression should be balanced so that getting to F100 would be about as difficult as it is to get to F80 now. Then I don't even think people would care about using 3rd party stuff at all (and most of the F80 pieces are still respectable, just not crazy good).

[Atoreis]

Actually if they wanted to make it COMPLETELY fair, they would never have added gear as good as Thaumas/Nares/Phorcys to a luck-upon-luck-upon-luck-upon-luck-(...)-based event such as Nyzul. Shoulda been in Legion or something (as stupid as I think Legion is, I think people would have cared more if decent stuff actually dropped there). I think I said somewhere earlier in the thread, but the gear that drops from F80 now should drop from F100, and the progression should be balanced so that getting to F100 would be about as difficult as it is to get to F80 now. Then I don't even think people would care about using 3rd party stuff at all (and most of the F80 pieces are still respectable, just not crazy good).

Dont see a reason why best stuff need to drop from big group events really. 6ppl is just enough. Ppl will always bother to use cheats.

[shepardG]

did 4 runs yesterday with vanilla ffxi just to try, zero relics, 1 empy 99, 3/4 100 wins, the first run was a flunk cause of a hidden same time lamp on a massive floor

Is that vanilla , as in didn't use windower? Or spell cast?

[Slycer]

Dont see a reason why best stuff need to drop from big group events really. 6ppl is just enough. Ppl will always bother to use cheats.

I only mentioned Legion because it's the only new really thing they added in the last... long time. They would be good rewards from any reasonably designed, reasonably challenging event. Nyzul Uncharted is a crap event and doesn't deserve armor like that. I'm not saying I hate the event - it is a fun design and could be a blast, but the luck factor is far too extreme to be enjoyable without using third party tools. I know people are saying they clear F100 using "only" fillmode and dat mods, but realistically speaking, dat mods save you at least a minute on any lamp order floor and fillmode probably saves 5 minutes over the course of a run (assuming the majority of the group is using it) as it lets you quickly identify the locations of lamps and enemies, especially useful for spec enemy floors and any larger floors. Combined, that's like 4-5 extra floor jumps. Like I said above, if you chopped off the last 20 floors and pretended they didn't exist and took away any third party tools, the event would be likely be perfect and would be great fun. I know people will always use cheats, but the current design of Nyzul greatly encourages, and even requires them in some respects. If you scroll back this entire thread, you will not find a single person who has acquired F100 armor without directly or indirectly (through other party members) relying on 3rd party tools and/or dat mods.

[Yugl]

For what it's worth, I don't believe SE will dumb down neo-nyzul and that's not because of people using 3rd party tools to have an a chance at succeeding. They already did adjust it from something which was beyond retarded to something which can be done without dat mods/fillmode/clipper - albeit only if you have beyond extreme luck and all the starts align etcetc. So the "all you people cheating to do this event will make it so console players/people that refuse to cheat will never have a chance at succeeding because SE isn't going to balance the event" just isn't a valid argument in my book, at all.

To add to this, our group actually took a console player with us and completed his set. It's fraaannss.

Edit: To add to Slycer's comments, remember that extended macros are a form of cheats as well. That aspect cannot be trivialized because each of these cheats impinge upon different aspects of the event. Clipper is meaningless if you kill at a slug's pace. Extended macros are meaningless on lamp floors. DAT changes are meaningless if you're trying to find the single enemy. Fillmode is useless if you're fighting a boss floor and people aren't using common sense. Common sense won't help you close the distance on that way-the-fuck-out-there last mob on a specified enemies floor. Each aspect is going to help you in one specific manner. Although people attempt to trivialize one or more of these (Especially, extended macros), they fail to recognize that having access to that does matter.

[Mairja]

To add to this, our group actually took a console player with us and completed his set. It's fraaannss.

Exactly!

[Slycer]

Actually I think you could make a fair argument for trivializing extended macros in most cases as you're generally just killing easy prey mobs. Certainly there are cases where they are useful, but I highly doubt they save nearly as much time as fillmode or any of the other items you mention. But yes, otherwise, I agree with you, and basically what I'm trying to say is that the way the event is designed right now, it is essentially impossible for six non-windower PC and/or console players to come close to clearing F100 without absolutely extraordinary luck. Certainly you could take one console player with five people using third party tools, but that doesn't mean six console players are going to be clearing this any time soon.

I do agree that this event will not be balanced any further, though. It's not impossible for someone to get F100 gear by means of F80 clears, so there is a way to get F100 gear even without using any third party tools, but even F80 cannot be cleared with consistency if you have six people playing vanilla. However, if SE realizes the breadth of the problem here then they will just create future sets (Einherjar, Salvage, Dungeon Crawl, whatever) to offset the benefits gained by the Nyzul gear.

[Yugl]

That's likely to depend on what you're playing as. As someone who is only been on PC for about a year, I still remember how fucking ridiculous it was to play BLU. You literally had to hit your macros six times to do one spell. Seven for chain affinity. A total of 13 macro presses is necessary for a full self-skillchain with just Chain Affinity (1 for CA, 3 for a spell1's gear+spell itself, 3 to go back to the original menu, 3 for spell2's gear+spell itself, and 3 to return to original menu). There are ways to shorten this, but because original macros can malfunction (Pressing them too quickly in succession will cause you to miss equipping some gear) they are risky. This quickly becomes annoying when you have clutch stuns to keep track of as well.

[Foldypaws]

It doesn't have a page, but is listed on the main NI page as a 61-79 NM.

Picaloton is the Thrakon Breastplate NM. Obviously no one in your party is a pre-abyssea DRG

[ikariiiii]

does vanilla mean no clipper/flee hack, or no 3pt at all?

no hax. fillmode clipper dats X

[Wardeniii]

I know Legion was originally brought up as an alternate drop location for nyzul armor since it is the only other reasonably new event, but the first thing that came to mind were the cold memories of constantly seeing people get amazing gear who you knew would not use it well (old king/sky content is coming to mind). Same thing with abjurations that drop to the common pool in Prov even now; people would rather take something and have it rot in their mog safe for all eternity before considering passing it to someone that would actually use it. One thing I love about nyzul (and VW for that matter) is that it remedied the old, underlying issue of trying to "win" gear not only by beating a mob/treasure drop odds, but also having to compete with other people. Sure you still get a minor taste of that with whatever drops to your treasure pool on 100, but I feel like this is far overshadowed by the enjoyment we get out of every single person getting to pick 1 piece of whatever the fuck they want. You know that everyone is walking away content.

[Bigsyke]

Picaloton is the Thrakon Breastplate NM. Obviously no one in your party is a pre-abyssea DRG

Or they were 75 when that shit came out and weren't gimp since they had a better body.

no hax. fillmode clipper dats X

Hello, I'm Napoleon Bonaparte.