Neo Nyzul Isle (Will FFXI continue? Find out on the next FFXI XP Pack!)

[Mrbeansman]

Yeah 3 ares body 35s in the same instanced salvage zone is totally the same as magically guessing a lamp order correctly on the first try. Lets be real here unless you were a total idiot and were talking about this in zone nobody's getting banned for this. Then again I'm totally up for being wrong because that LM-17 thread was the single greatest thing I've ever read on an internet forum.

[Weeks]

Even if you count every run that has a single order lamp floor on it as a failed run you will still win 10%~ of the time if you have a competant group.

Unless Square's sloppy coding forces someone to disconnect (Happens on a quarter of the runs I've been on) or strands a DD on floor 99. There is nothing more infuriating than the confluence of good luck and good play being ruined by Square's ineptitude at the last minute.

[Eurell]

Clearly someone who hasn't done a lamp floor without DAT swaps in ages, if ever. On average it will take a full minute to find all the lamps. Give 10 seconds to hit all 5 in some order, then the ~20 to 30 seconds it takes for the lamps to turn off and everyone to communicate if their lamp stayed on or not, then the 10-15 seconds for the game to acknowledge you got it right, and the two minutes (Which still is way over budget for a floor) only holds up if you get it second try and you have impeccably fast communication and execution.

I'm pretty sure I said a few posts ago that the most we do is vent (or windower macros too). No dat swaps, no clipper or fillmode or w/e.

I already said 2 minutes After you find the lamps. Everyone should be hitting the lamp as soon as they get to it and letting people know. So lets start the countdown there.

15 seconds for SE to confirm the order. Wrong order. 10-15 seconds for everyone to hit the lamps in a new order. Obviously 1 person should be calling out the order of lamps, and just rotating the names. I.E. first time you hit it, its player1>p2>p3>p4>p5. Second time is player2>p3>p4>p5>p1 and so on until its correct. People should also already have the option to click the lamp on already pulled up ready to go while the person before them is turning theirs on. If people are talking on vent or skype or w/e, it should Not take more than 10 seconds to turn all 5 lamps on. So with a 15 second cool down inbetween, if you have to go a maximum of 5 orders, thats 1min 15 seconds of SE confirming the order, and 40-50 seconds of clicking lamps. So add in the minute you said it takes to find the lamps, (and wtf at people running at flee speed and needing a full minute on average) then that makes Orders a 3 minute floor. If 1-2 3 minute floors mean a 100% loss for you, idk lol. Because those under 1 minute specified enemy and leader floors should be evening you back out.

Honestly, we have way more trouble on Same time lamps than on order. Order is cake, they wont turn on till you hit all lamps, so its easy to figure it out. Same time, you never know how many there are unless you see 5 fairly quickly. And with the 15 second cooldown before you can even turn your lamp back on, those floors can suck.


Edit: and on that other topic lol, yeah, the d/c issue is ridiculous. Last weekend we had 2 people d/c on lamp floors over 90. One of which was a code. Cost us a run

[Fake]

What would you call a run that ended with a total of 6 lamp floors, 3 of which were order? Yes it failed. Four tags burned last night, we encountered at least one order floor on every single one.

Two minutes maximum per order floor? Seriously, no.

Read what I posted, just because you had 4 runs in a row with order lamps doesn't mean every run is. Yes it sucks if you aren't prepared to use dats and yes people who do use dats and fillmode are going to have a significantly higher win rate, but that is the basic premise of cheating in the first place isn't it? To gain an unfair advantage in a given situation.

A good group not using anything more than skype/mumble/vent (there is no way this can be considered a cheat) will be abe to win runs with a low success rate.

Unless Square's sloppy coding forces someone to disconnect (Happens on a quarter of the runs I've been on) or strands a DD on floor 99. There is nothing more infuriating than the confluence of good luck and good play being ruined by Square's ineptitude at the last minute.

These problems seem to persistently affect certain people whilst others get by without any lock ups or crashes, it is certainly infuriating but I have been fortunate enough not to have suffered from it or any regulars in my group.

[NynJa]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post339241

The funniest part is the person posted a link to the youtube vid, and if I'm understanding whats coming out from google translate, they're pretty much saying either "Look they dat edit and put the lamp order" or "Why does their lamp have a number attacked to it?"


and fucking lol @ "2 minutes for a lamp order floor", that number is definitely low and your timeline is wrong.

Obviously 1 person should be calling out the order of lamps, and just rotating the names. I.E. first time you hit it, its player1>p2>p3>p4>p5. Second time is player2>p3>p4>p5>p1 and so on until its correct.

Thats not how lamp order works. Find all the lamps (30 seconds). You do 1-2-3-4-5 (15 seconds), wait for all the lamps to turn on and shut off (10 seconds), find out whos lamps went out (in this case, 1-3-5) and revise the order while locked out (30 seconds), do new order 3-2-5-4-1 (20 seconds because someones going to get confused), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (1-3-5) and revise order (30 seconds), do new order 5-2-1-4-3 (15 seconds), get clearance to port up (10 seconds). 3 minutes.

If you want another, worse scenario:
Find all the lamps (30 seconds).
Round 1: You do 1-2-3-4-5 (15 seconds), wait for all the lamps to turn on and shut off (10 seconds), find out whos lamps went out (in this case, all of them) and revise the order while locked out (30 seconds)
Round 2: do new order 2-3-4-5-1 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (all) and revise order (30 seconds)
Round 3: do new order 3-4-5-1-2 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (2-3) and revise order (30 seconds)
Round 3: do new order 3-5-1-4-2 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (2-3) and revise order (30 seconds)
Round 4: do new order 3-1-4-5-2 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (none because theres no other combos)
get clearance to port up (10 seconds).
Almost 5 minutes, the time it should take you two get up three floors, you did one.

The timeline goes much greater when theres that extra lamp thats tucked away in a corner that someone missed.

[Mojo]

To be fair, 90% of what NAs post on the official forums is retarded too.

[NynJa]

To be fair, 90% of what NAs post on the official forums is retarded too.

Except dev admins dont reply to them saying "thanks for bringing this to my attention, we'll look into it, enjoy your stay in vanadiel".

Imagine if Camate replied to all of Starcade's EVERYONES A CHEATER tirades with "thanks for telling us, we'll look into it, fix the problem and provide swift justice".

[dannyl]

NynJa, you forgot to add seconds and or minutes on the player who happened to aggro something near the lamp itself or had to force clear it out.

[NynJa]

Can tack that onto the 30 seconds to find lamps, since it could possibly be killed before someone gets to the last lamp.

[Mercilessturtle]

That doesn't need to add any time, just use the lamp anyways. It isn't hard to time it so you go in between attacks. Using the lamp deagros stuff, so there's no point killing it.

[Eurell]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post339241

The funniest part is the person posted a link to the youtube vid, and if I'm understanding whats coming out from google translate, they're pretty much saying either "Look they dat edit and put the lamp order" or "Why does their lamp have a number attacked to it?"


and fucking lol @ "2 minutes for a lamp order floor", that number is definitely low and your timeline is wrong.

Thats not how lamp order works. Find all the lamps (30 seconds). You do 1-2-3-4-5 (15 seconds), wait for all the lamps to turn on and shut off (10 seconds), find out whos lamps went out (in this case, 1-3-5) and revise the order while locked out (30 seconds), do new order 3-2-5-4-1 (20 seconds because someones going to get confused), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (1-3-5) and revise order (30 seconds), do new order 5-2-1-4-3 (15 seconds), get clearance to port up (10 seconds). 3 minutes.

If you want another, worse scenario:
Find all the lamps (30 seconds).
Round 1: You do 1-2-3-4-5 (15 seconds), wait for all the lamps to turn on and shut off (10 seconds), find out whos lamps went out (in this case, all of them) and revise the order while locked out (30 seconds)
Round 2: do new order 2-3-4-5-1 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (all) and revise order (30 seconds)
Round 3: do new order 3-4-5-1-2 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (2-3) and revise order (30 seconds)
Round 3: do new order 3-5-1-4-2 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (2-3) and revise order (30 seconds)
Round 4: do new order 3-1-4-5-2 (15 seconds), wait for the lamps to turn on and off (10 seconds), find out whos lamp went out (none because theres no other combos)
get clearance to port up (10 seconds).
Almost 5 minutes, the time it should take you two get up three floors, you did one.

The timeline goes much greater when theres that extra lamp thats tucked away in a corner that someone missed.

Well first of all, you dont get locked out of Order lamps once they turn off, only Same time Lamps. As soon as Order lamps turn off, you can turn them right back on. Have people been dat swapping too long to forget how they work?

Also, it takes all of 1 second to find out what lamps stayed on and to revise the order accordingly, or is typing or saying "On" too diffifcult for people lol.

Finding lamps and hitting them the first time should be done at the same time. When you see the lamp, hit it, and tell people you hit it. That sets up your first order.

Taking off that imaginary lock out takes 2 minutes off of your time already, which puts us at the 3 minutes I said (which included 1 minute to find the lamps).


Edit: and finding one tucked away isn't a huge deal with order lamps, as you know exactly when you have found them all, they turn on. I have already said Same time lamps however, can be much more frustrating when something like that happens.

[dasva]

1 second for everyone to say whose was on, figure out revised order AND then telling the revised order? Damn I wish I was that fast

[Eurell]

How long does it take to Say on or off, then for someone to type out 12345. There should be no thinking involved when revising the order, you just move everyone over one place if their lamp is off.

And again, this is 3 minutes (by nynja's own calculations if you take out that made up 30 second lock out) for 5 Lamps when you pick the wrong order 5 times. Odds of that happening on an order floor aren't exactly very high. Our last run I think we had 3 orders, only 1 had 5 lamps, the other 2 floors had 3 lamps which take waaaay less time. An Ordered lamp floor should not mean an automatic loss like so many people think, uless they are doing something wrong.

[dasva]

More than 1 second I can garuntee that.

[Slycer]

Lamp order floors are not the worst of the worst, but they are consistently a time sink if you do not use dat mods. The worst floors you can get are large layout all enemy floors in the 81-99 range that have multiple NMs and maybe even throw in avoid discovery gears or some stupid pathos to slow you down. Those can take 3-5 minutes (some of the NMs in that range can be really stupid) and nearly always spell the end for that run.

[Helel]

Hydra was horrible for us. Maybe you'll get lucky chopping his heads off but he screwed us over at least twice through a mix of physical shields and tremble spam. Never saw him use nerve gas but who knows.

[ronin sparthos]

The 'balanced' thing to do would be to remove order objectives entirely leaving same time and code but we all know this patch is designed to punish cheaters rather than solve inherent problems with the content.

[Taint]

Order is way easier then you all are making it out to be. We do it in Alphabetical order, for out group thats. E,K,L,S,T

S,T stay on it goes S,T,E,K,L

S,T,E stay on its S,T,E,L,K

Shouldn't ever take more then 3 tries.

[ronin sparthos]

Order is way easier then you all are making it out to be. We do it in Alphabetical order, for out group thats. E,K,L,S,T

S,T stay on it goes S,T,E,K,L

S,T,E stay on its S,T,E,L,K

Shouldn't ever take more then 3 tries.

Except you don't typically have time for 3 tries in Nyzul Uncharted.

I'm not arguing that order is difficult but what I will argue is that the way SE has this event setup you are going to lose a ton of time finding, activating and confirming order lamps. This problem is only compounded when you throw large floors into the mix.

[NynJa]

And, just for the cute factor since I'm having to deal with it right now
JP player: disgusting NA cheat but get away with it, what is that number next to Runic Lamp.

Bitch please, trying to play it off like JP players never cheat.