Neo Nyzul Isle (Will FFXI continue? Find out on the next FFXI XP Pack!)

[Tidane]

I did a few runs as soon as the servers came back up with THF BLU NIN RNG SAM WHM. A few of us were familiar with Nyzul (maybe 3/6).

One run had a lot of lamp floors and bad jumps, which took us to floor 50ish. The last run had us getting to 90ish, until an order lamp went bad. There was trouble with order floors (and one enemy leader Flan, for some reason).

A group of competent players who understand Nyzul should have no problem winning fairly consistently, with any reasonable setup.

[noodles355]

cor will be horrible. Only time you can buff all dds is at rune and it takes too long and if you bust you don't have time to reroll so you are without buffs. Brd would be much better as one song should last 2 floors even With out gjallar or ddb. Songs are very fast to sing with current gear so you could easily alternate singing each song each port up. Keep Brd at rune. marches would make Brd/nin a stronger dd than cor if sch wanted to stay at rune instead I would think too. But I'd still keep Brd at rune and sch running for cures etc.

[kenshyn]

Seems sch brd combo maybe the way to go.

[Atoreis]

cor will be horrible. Only time you can buff all dds is at rune and it takes too long and if you bust you don't have time to reroll so you are without buffs. Brd would be much better as one song should last 2 floors even With out gjallar or ddb. Songs are very fast to sing with current gear so you could easily alternate singing each song each port up. Keep Brd at rune. marches would make Brd/nin a stronger dd than cor if sch wanted to stay at rune instead I would think too. But I'd still keep Brd at rune and sch running for cures etc.

BRD can also sing mazurka for lamps floor.

[Ambir]

BRD would have to stay at the teleport unless you decide you need no healing on any floor.
All the healing along with 5 x AoE and 1 x Single target buffs pretty much wipes a SCH out.
Mellees do need to be a lot more careful than they used to be. Embrava really could cover a lot of mistakes / aggressive behavior.
SCH really excels at the AoE buffs though and as main healer (in areas where mellees dont have huge healing requirements) so can handle main healing / buffing. Not sure what else can..

The SCH + 5 mellees probably worked well enough for killing most of the floors for us, but the problem was who activates the lamp! Sending someone back had the potential to waste lots of time, and we didn't want to not send a healer with the mellees. If a mellee ws to wait at the lamp, then he might as well be someon who had a multitude of usable AoE buffs, ie a second SCH...

[Zumi]

Since I started to play FFXI a lot more actively I was running a lot of pick up groups got 8/15 pieces pre embrava nerf, won about half the time. However post embrava nerf have yet to win a single run, even with going with a lot of the same people that I won with before. Everyone been doing sch sch 4 melee but it just doesn't work well, i told people to bring a brd but they didn't seem to want to because all that 2nd sch does is sit at the lamp and does 1 buff on floor up.

[noodles355]

going to make more self sufficient dds like blu drg and apoc drk more popular too.

[Shenrien]

BRD SCH MNK DRK RNG(>_> and PS2 NIN w/ no gear swaps we managed to win twice, yay my mule has some of this gear now -_-;

dat fail pug build

edit -

honestly, the SCH could be replaced by a RDM or a WHM and there would be pretty much no change to anything, never used embrava and had 5 minutes on the last floor both times that we got there, lost once because the drk died and the nin decieded that sneak and invis items were over rated and sat at the rune for one of the floors because he wanted to only use nin tools.

[Sechs]

Did 2x runs with the following setup:
BRD (stays at rune), SCH, Amano SAM, Ragna DRK, Ukko War, GSWD DRK.

First time we reached like... uh... floor 47? But the SCH sucked and forgot to accession Regen5 twice in a row (......). Run was full of mistakes, and tbf we also had some real bad luck on jumps, but still you could hardly notice the 10 levels less, and you could clearly notice the lack of embrava regen. People's HP were constantly low.

Second time we wiped on a Caramel Custard on floor 79 because of a bad pull and lowhp aggro undead nearby. I was at rune and too far from the NM to go give them a hand. On this second run the SCH didn't miss the accession regen and the DRK swapped to Apoc. Big difference and decent jumps.
As far as I could notice The big difference comes not just from the lack of regain (which helps a lot build TP as you walk from one mob to another, I suppose) but in the survivability. More damage taken from mobs and less regen = bad bad bad. With people spread all over the map the SCH can't always heal people who need it. I think there's gonna be need for more self-sufficient jobs and more temp items pots etc.


This was kinda a random group though, I'll be able to tell for real once I do another run with my static (which which we have a uhm 40% win rate? Around that I guess)

[Emdief]

Just attempted 3 times post nerf, going to share our experience.
First time se went sch brd nin war drk drk. We reached floor 74 with some mistakes, and I can say from my point of view that both brd and sch are not the best way to do this. Even trying to alternate songs between floors we noticed we wasted a lot of time waiting for buffs. Experienced melees used to wait only for embrava, and several times we had our dds fleeing all over the floor without waiting on songs. Beside that having to wait for 4 brava on 100 floors can be acceptable, while having to wait for one song at every jump is totally different.
Also, considering the lack of regen dds take a shitload of dmg now, reason why sch doesnt handle cures as well as it used to do.
Second attempt we changed sch with a whm and the run was a way smoother. MPs were never an issue, but still we had another problem: non self-efficient dds were having a hard time with hps, as whm could only follow one of the 2 groups.

We're going to try again tomorrow looking for either 2 whm in order to follow both groups or one whm and 5 ds able to saurvive on all enemies / fam floors. Another solution could be to have the dds move together instead of splitting, this way brd could do his stuff mid floor and you could still go for dds like war and other suicidal ones.
Last but not least dds MUST change their attitude towards nni: seen 2 weakened people going against one nm w/o whm supporto on our last attempt, which is something you should definitely forget w/o a 75hp/tick regen.

[Sechs]

I don't understand the point you're making on WHM vs SCH.
Sure WHM can still provide a good array of buffs (Boost-STR, stronger shell and protect etc) but you don't really need the power of WHM's Curagas or Cure5-6, do you?
SCH can provide adloquium, which is laughable but it's better than nothing, and Regen 5.
If you really stick regen5 on all DDs you won't need that much healing except on tougher targets, for which DDs are supposed to deploy their defensive abilities and temp items.
SCH can also occasionally nuke mobs (which supposedly are weaker to magic post nerf) and provide a wider array of beneficial buffs, I really don't see the point.

The issue of groups being split in two... how is WHM gonna make a difference there? While a SCH's Regen5 (which has to be cast before the Group splits) could make a serious difference.


Also BRD doesn't have to re-stick songs every floor. Can use Night/Troub 3 times, all those 3 times songs will last roughly 6.5mins. 6,5x3 = 19,5 minutes. That's more than 2/3 of a run. If nobody dies and people stop running away when the BRD calls "Stay, buffs" it doesn't seem a HUGE difference to me.
With competent DDs who have ways of caring for themselves I think it's gonna be still pretty doable to reach floor 100.
For everybody else yeah, it's gonna be harder but they can still aim for 80 and relax a bit.

[TheDangerousDave]

Healing worries and self sufficient DDs becoming a better option were two things I predicted before the nerf. I think 5 DDs and one healer is gonna be best. Would SAM/DNC and DRG/mage be able to cure enough to offset damage taken? I know Apoc, THF/DNC, BLU would all be fine.

[Sechs]

I think 5 DDs and one healer is gonna be best.

With 5DDs you could split the Group in 2.
3 DD (with correct subjob) + 1 SCH
2 DD (with self-sufficient subjob)
Talking about "normal" DDs here. If we start talking about Apoc DRKs it's a different story I guess.

Altough I am unable to estimate the loss of 3 songs, how big of an impact would that be? I would be leaning to say bigger than the presence of a 5th DD, but I may be overestimating things.

[sfchakan]

If keeping up Accession/Perpetuance Regen5 + Phalanx and Nightengale/Troubadour Marches is too hard, you need to take different people. The idea of having everyone move together is a nightmare of a run in the making. Inexperienced NNI groups do this at first and waste a ton of time doing so.

[Eurell]

With 5DDs you could split the Group in 2.
3 DD (with correct subjob) + 1 SCH
2 DD (with self-sufficient subjob)

You need someone waiting at the rune still.

[bechyni]

If keeping up Accession/Perpetuance Regen5 + Phalanx and Nightengale/Troubadour Marches is too hard, you need to take different people. The idea of having everyone move together is a nightmare of a run in the making. Inexperienced NNI groups do this at first and waste a ton of time doing so.

This. If you feel like you're wasting too much time after floor completion for buffs to get applied then you might want to either yell at them to hurry the fuck up or find someone who can do the job correctly. A decent Brd with night/troub should have no problem being fast casting songs, SCH should still be preferred over WHM. AoE Phalanx, Regen5, Enthunder (or whatever) and Perp haste just put it over WHM. Everything else should remain the same with splitting the 4 DDs into two groups etc etc.

[Lior]

all the buffs from SCH and BRD gonna be all over the place anyway...
a good group knows when to stay together for buffs and when its ok to scatter/run off. communication makes the difference in there...

i just failed twice with SCH, ghorn/harp BRD, ragna DRK, ukon WAR, spharai MNK and relic NIN. we made it to 89 and 82... its doable really. but ppl need to get used to this different setup first.

[zoopooscooper]

BRD should only need to do songs, what, 6 times? Night/Troub on first floor, lasts over 6 min, then one more without Night/Troub should take you back to Night/Troub recast, or damn near there. And the three with Night/Troub are pretty much instant cast.

[Odin'sLaw]

just did 4 runs tonight, we noticed it seems more often to get poor jumps now then before Nerf on one of the floors it took 11 jumps to get to 42, so they've adjusted the RNG or before the nerf i was a lucky monkey :/

[Eurell]

just did 4 runs tonight, we noticed it seems more often to get poor jumps now then before Nerf on one of the floors it took 11 jumps to get to 42, so they've adjusted the RNG or before the nerf i was a lucky monkey :/

I also hear they upped the drop rate on Ridill in there after this update.