Neo Nyzul Isle (Will FFXI continue? Find out on the next FFXI XP Pack!)

[Mrbeansman]

Will you guys shut up about clipper and fillmode already? This isn't Kings where cheating has a massive negative effect on you. They have a advantage over you get over it.

[Deader2818]

Im not really crying saying "Its to hard and to intense!" so not sure where that idea is coming from.

[dasva]

again another false statement when will the madness end

Says the guy that calls cheating "giving it a fair go"

[Yugl]

What's the highest a group has reached without clipper/fillmode/other plugins/apradar/DAT/applications changes in general?

[Shenrien]

Probably got stopped the moment they hit a lamp order floor, that or sucked 5-6 minutes finding out the proper order.

[dasva]

It's still a valid question that I think some people would like to know.

[Xantavia]

Will you guys shut up about clipper and fillmode already? This isn't Kings where cheating has a massive negative effect on you. They have a advantage over you get over it.

It could turn into a possible negative effect though. If SE is noticing that people are regularly getting to 80+, the chance of adjustments really goes down. That is my common sense and most likely changes wouldn't be made even if people couldn't get past 20.

[NynJa]

It could turn into a possible negative effect though. If SE is noticing that people are regularly getting to 80+, the chance of adjustments really goes down. That is my common sense and most likely changes wouldn't be made even if people couldn't get past 20.

^- this
Its already been said tho. When SE dropped alex from 50k to 30k, which was during the triple-duping era, the probably looked that the X amount of alex in the system, which included all the trip/duped alex, and figured 30k was a good number, opposed to 15k or 20k. Even if someone elses cheating tactic dont "directly" hurt you, it can stiill hurt you.

Now that there is a record of people reaching 100F with multiple cheating tactics, thanks...you just ruined any chance of the event getting a proper adjustment that it needs so those of us who dont want to flee around at constant 300% speed only have a "silver horseshoe up the ass's" chance of getting any 100F gear.
http://upload.slightlymore.co.uk/wor...joker-clap.gif

[Jem]

What's the highest a group has reached without clipper/fillmode/other plugins/apradar/DAT/applications changes in general?

Our previous runs the week before had no DAT edits and we were still hitting 60-80 with mistakes. Essentially we were making 13-16 clears, experience and DAT edits bumped that to 14-17. I think experience/luck played more into it though as we didn't get a single order floor this week.

We did still have fillmode though. It is obviously a cheat and I'm not debating that. It isn't as big an advantage now as it was at 75 since you split up anyway and mobs are that squishy that they will be dead before you catch up with your friends. It also means you run into walls/dead ends more but it 100% saves more time than you lose. I'd say it's worth about 60-120 secs per run. It's a free floor basically.

Windower macros give you a larger advantage than fillmode. The same with spellcast. I think you'll struggle to find a group that all plays without windower.

I honestly think 60-80 is consistently possible without cheating. 100 will be a rarity but possible. But it seems people want to be able to consistenly hit 100 which is why they hate on the event. I wonder if Legion will be the same if people can't clear enough mobs consistently for the better gear.

[Toxeus]

It could turn into a possible negative effect though. If SE is noticing that people are regularly getting to 80+, the chance of adjustments really goes down. That is my common sense and most likely changes wouldn't be made even if people couldn't get past 20.

the point is.. it doesn't need adjustments

not to mention your assumption of what is really going on is completely skewed, like jem said.. what is really helping is fillmode and .dat swaps..

the butthurt in this thread is amazing, also o yeah only ppl to get far in nyzle is on asura, go team asura

[Yugl]

Without commenting on the normative status of the event, I hope you realize the error you have made.

P1: Cheating, including clipper and fillmode, does not disadvantage players; it only advantages players
P2: Cheating disadvantages players because the advantages cheating confers prevents adjustments necessary for non-cheating players to be successful (Floor 100 drops)
P3 (You): Fillmode and DATs advantage players the most; What P2 listed does not advantage players the most

[Colenzo]

the point is.. it doesn't need adjustments

not to mention your assumption of what is really going on is completely skewed, like jem said.. what is really helping is fillmode and .dat swaps..

the butthurt in this thread is amazing, also o yeah only ppl to get far in nyzle is on asura, go team asura

You do realize how retarded you are right? You're basically stating that something is in perfect working order as long as you're abusing the game to get what you want. Remember all the dumbfucks that got banned for duping in salvage because they had this same mentality? You're being one of these dumbfucks and congratulations on missing the point in having content that works in an acceptable manner without you having to pry a fucking crowbar into the box lid to get what you want. I swear to fuck you better be trolling me because if you aren't you're sporting one hell of a retard helmet.

[Karbuncle]

What's the highest a group has reached without clipper/fillmode/other plugins/apradar/DAT/applications changes in general?

Can't talk in regards to the rest of my team, But we all know I don't use windower (Didn't use...), My group managed to hit floor 60~70 or so on one of our runs. Lamp order is what will kill any non-augmented run... Just take too much time.

[Draylo]

the point is.. it doesn't need adjustments

not to mention your assumption of what is really going on is completely skewed, like jem said.. what is really helping is fillmode and .dat swaps..

the butthurt in this thread is amazing, also o yeah only ppl to get far in nyzle is on asura, go team asura

It does need adjustments.

[Cairthenn]

It doesn't need detectable methods of cheating so obviously adjustments are not necessary.

Sound logic.

[Stan64]

I was hoping for more strategy talk but everyone here are elitist jerks. =D

I find it nice that it is hard. How fun would it be if you could reach floor 100 every try within two weeks?

I really think SE found a way to clear it somewhat consistent before releasing it.

But, after a couple of weeks or months there should always be some kind of nerf and especially as new content rolls out old content should be somewhat more accessible. Not easy, but a bit easier.


On another note.
And cheaters says the darnest things. Are you breaking the Terms of Service and making you available for a ban wave? If the answer is yes then you are a cheater. Just because you CAN abuse the game, or some content is too unfair, it doesn't make you right. But I couldn't care less about people cheating though, stop making a big deal of it and shove it down our throats.

Now let's discuss some tactics, analyze floor patterns or something else that would drive the community forward, I thought this was a forum were pros gathered not whiny eletist jerks.

[Yugl]

To be fair, the only analysis available is 1) Monster specifics 2) Theory-crafting. The latter is limited to jump and objective patterns, which most people assume are random (At the very least, expect attacks if you suggest otherwise). Such analysis depends on people requesting certain data and other fulfilling that request. The former is straightforward, but given the proliferation of temp items, it seems non-issue for most groups. Thus, you are left with questions regarding technical issues (Typically, answered by BG-wiki), discussion of drop rate (Which is nonexistent if there are no drops), and bragging.

[noodles355]

Tool usage aside, Abyssea really has skewed expectations for what has always been a systemically time-intensive MMO (for better or worse, this is what you signed on for.)

So they chose a different implementation of the RNG in gating this revamp. Nyzul-smash will have my vote over logwatch anyday (at least until ticket implementation.)

Anecdotal datas: 3 runs, 2x floor 80 kills. SCH BRD SAM NIN DRK MNK; Lv 76, 82, 87.

No dats; of course we use windower.

(We also used vent and there was a brief lamp related discussion.) #madcheats

Drops?

Oh, and regarding this whole cheating/not cheating thing. I don't think anyone is disputing (certainy none of our group) that the event needs adjustments. Of course it does. Modding dats and fillmode should be tools to save time. It shouldn't be required for completion of the content.

This bullshit is very boring. Can we get Auntie in here to clear all this crap up? I'd quite like to get back to discussions about how to improve our runs. Our last session averaged 15 floors, and I'm looking for ways to further improve that with our current team.

[danthebk]

I still feel this content would be incredibly easy, albeit luck still required, if we weren't limited to one per day. Many players would have spammed it more times on the first day than any player has been allowed to do it since it's release. Jem already saw floor 106 iirc, based on how long it's been out +5 assuming captain rank and holding a tag, if Jem could have spammed that many runs in a day or two rather than over a period of a week and a half, we'd have seen floor 100s by the end of the first day. Not including the people that would have been more inclined to do it because of the ability to spam it.

It is very difficult; it does favor cheaters; it does require a lot of luck; etc.

[Slycer]

I still feel this content would be incredibly easy, albeit luck still required, if we weren't limited to one per day.

QFT. I would so love to do this content again and again because there's so much random chance involved but it's actually quite enjoyable. It's painful when you're on that last tag and you get some stupid floor selections or bad floor jumps.

As far as the clipper/fillmode debate goes, people who are using it cannot deny that it is saving them time on every run. Even if it's only 30-60 seconds, that's basically one quick floor jump. Take off another 30-60 seconds if you get a lamp order floor and you have the dats modded. Byrth did a statistical analysis earlier, but it's clear that just one extra floor jump per run, on average, can increase your probability of hitting a specific boss floor on any given run exponentially. i.e. "cheating," or whatever you decide to call it, does give you an undebatable advantage.

As far as "strategies" go, there's nothing different here than the original Nyzul, so I'm not sure what strategies you're looking for. Basically the only thing you *need* to make sure you know how to do before you go in is coordination on lamps floors, especially for order.

Simple things that save a few seconds, however, will all add up:

--Don't be stupid and team up against normal mobs on all enemies floors. By the time you engage it'll be dead.

--Run in different directions from others wherever possible, especially on "specified enemy" floors. On all enemies floors, only a small handful of NMs will need some assistance (another DD or a healer or whatever).

--Know the NMs. For example, Nukku is a dick and spams amnesia. If you know that going in you can prepare for it, but someone will almost always die if you don't have BLU and don't have a healer there. Know which chariot is which, so you know whether you need to prepare for Discoid, Brainjack, or Homing Missile (Mortal Rev is w/e).

--Someone should try to stay near the rune of transfer at all times, and at least one or two people (but really everyone) should have movement speed and Sprinter's Drink and/or flee for those floors where this is impossible (register lamp, for instance). The worst kind of wasted time is the time between completing an objective and porting up.

--Constantly putting on your movement speed gear whenever you are on the move will save you time, it won't be a lot, but even 30 seconds a run is precious.

--Temps: It's most likely more effective to spread out your buff temp usage than to use them all at once on certain floors, but this is debatable. Monarch's, for example, is probably better used on an all enemies or spec enemies floor so you can take advantage of the regain while moving from mob to mob. Certainly make sure you have plenty of temps for whatever boss floor you're targeting (20, 40, and 60 are usually easily defeated without any temps, but everyone should bring Cleric's Drinks and use them in an order to get rid of the shitty AoE debuff TP moves these bosses have, you'll want at least fanatic's for 80 and 100).


None of this isn't common sense, but it's stuff that you should consider beforehand so you arent wasting time during the run. You definitely want to talk strategy for each type of floor before going in if you're going with a group or person you haven't gone with before.