Neo Nyzul Isle (Will FFXI continue? Find out on the next FFXI XP Pack!)

[Churchill]

hope you crash

[Deader2818]

Because content shouldn't be catered towards the lowest common denominator. Paying for the game shouldn't automatically give you a free pass to obtaining everything.

If I went out and bought Guitar Hero 17 or whatever the fuck it's up to, I shouldn't automatically be entitled to platinum the game. Just because I am terribad at Guitar Hero games shouldn't mean the developers should dumb down the content to my level so that I can have all the shinies.

Paying for the game gives you the right to play/attempt the content. Not the right to be successful regardless of skill level.

Guitar hero has a skill level setting to play the game at whatever skill you are. FFXI doesn't really. You can still get all songs even if you don't play at the highest level. Highest level stuff is just cosmetic stuff that doesnt matter.

[Jem]

Guitar hero has a skill level setting to play the game at whatever skill you are. FFXI doesn't really. You can still get all songs even if you don't play at the highest level. Highest level stuff is just cosmetic stuff that doesnt matter.

Yes and if I set it at the lower skill level, I can't get all the trophies. I can't play on the lowest skill difficulty whilst still obtaining the trophies that require you to play on hard mode can I?

Plenty of games have content/items unlocked based upon fulfilling x objective on y difficulty. And if you can't do it then tough shit, you don't get that content.

It's not like you can't enter Neo-Nyzul at all. You can still attempt to do it, just the same as I could attempt to play Guitar Hero on the hardest difficulty.

[Deader2818]

I don't personally count trophies as content.

But really, its a pointless argument so i'll just stop because everyone sees it different and there isn't really a right or wrong.

[Jem]

Well my original point was more directed at why retards shouldn't be able to get the same items as anyone else. They can get the same items as anyone else, they just have to be better first like most computer games.

[Prothescar]

With these changes the hierarchy should turn out just right. Retardalicious McPerleBST won't be sporting full Phorcys gear (hopefully), but people with the skill and ability to get to at least floor 80 will have a shot at some decent stuff.

[arus2001]

Possible minority opinion incoming, but I feel like more than 5 boss kills for an individual piece to be too excessive. For anyone looking to collect all 3 sets, you're looking at 75 days of getting to 80 reliably. As some others have mentioned, future gear minimalizing or antiquating the stuff is also a possibility, and would no doubt be a thorn to those who spent a month for a single piece if doing it the way some wish. Ultimately, by the time the "scrubs" get whatever, if ever, the good players will have had it for months or already moved on to the next best piece. Whoop de doo.

[noodles355]

I have to assume that if you are wearing pearle gear you are new to the game.

A new player also wouldn't be used to nyzul and thus would still probably be aiming for F40 initially, where F40 are upgrade and a free F60 drop every few weeks is an awesome bonus.
However, I think you give too much credit to the majority of players with that comment. You under-estimate just how terrible a lot of players are.

Most of us here should be aiming for 80/100 without any trouble, however go consider the average poster on the Official Forums. They certainly won't, and my last F60/F80 comparison comment will fit in well with them.

[noodles355]

Possible minority opinion incoming, but I feel like more than 5 boss kills for an individual piece to be too excessive. For anyone looking to collect all 3 sets, you're looking at 75 days of getting to 80 reliably.

And anyone looking to complete just one whole armor set is looking at only 25 days, where they are guaranteed the drops they want and don't have to deal with multiple drops of the same item. Concider how long it took you/would have took you to get a full Homam or Nashira set. Ditto the two Valhalla pieces and any other abj you needed from Odin. Other content could be comparable as well but I can't be bothered making a thousand comparisons.

Full sets of that shit could be farmed very quickly, however it could drop pieces you already have, and the drops you need could go to another PT member, thus it took a long time.
In comparison, this ticket system will mean EVERYONE in your party will get a guaranteed drop, which they can choose to be something to eliminate getting multiple of the same drop, very quickly. 3.5 weeks and all 6 of you would be finished on one set. 3 and a bit months and all 6 of you will have completed all three sets. If you think that's a good thing then you've been abysseafied.

[calinz]

And anyone looking to complete just one whole armor set is looking at only 25 days, where they are guaranteed the drops they want and don't have to deal with multiple drops of the same item. Concider how long it took you/would have took you to get a full Homam or Nashira set. Ditto the two Valhalla pieces and any other abj you needed from Odin. Other content could be comparable as well but I can't be bothered making a thousand comparisons.

Full sets of that shit could be farmed very quickly, however it could drop pieces you already have, and the drops you need could go to another PT member, thus it took a long time.
In comparison, this ticket system will mean EVERYONE in your party will get a guaranteed drop, which they can choose to be something to eliminate getting multiple of the same drop, very quickly. 3.5 weeks and all 6 of you would be finished on one set. 3 and a bit months and all 6 of you will have completed all three sets. If you think that's a good thing then you've been abysseafied.

So you would rather do the same content over and over again for 3 years instead of 3 months? Or is it the fact that once you get all you want you dont have to stick with the rest of the group to see them get their stuff?

Personally, I think it IS a good thing if stuff doesn't take too long to get and 3 months is quite reasonable in my opinion. Here's why: this encourages developers to make new and fresh content, which
1. This doesn't make you worship the gear you have and QQ if its even obsoleted by a new piece.
and
2. It keeps things interesting because you're not grinding the same thing over and over like dynamis which we've been doing since 2005 ffs. Almost 7 years paying SE money for the same event. (If it wasn't for the revamp to make it more casual anyway)

[Slycer]

There is an overwhelmingly large amount of level 75 gear in the game and an underwhelmingly small amount of level 99 gear by comparison. Level 75 gear was introduced to the game over a ~6 year period, and I'm not willing to wait another 6 years to get a nice-size smattering of level 99 gear. You could make the argument that Abyssea gear is essentially gear for level 99, but I would disagree and point to the fact that the stats on the F100 level 99 Nyzul gear and the stats on the dat mined Legion gear far surpass some of the limits that we saw on Abyssea gear, so I would not be surprised if much of the Abyssea gear becomes outclassed fairly quickly. So yeah, I do agree that this stuff needs to be challenging to acquire, but also has to be acquirable in a reasonable amount of time by those capable of doing so or else they will have an excuse to sit on their laurels and continue with the dribs and drabs introduction of endgame gear rather than keeping the pace up. Abysseafied or not, I don't think anyone is expecting another 6+ years out of a 10 year old MMO.

All that being said, if the bosses still have their own 0-3 drops that drop normally, 5 kills to pick yet another drop seems really low (I realize the 5 number was just someone's guess).

[noodles355]

So you would rather do the same content over and over again for 3 years instead of 3 months? Or is it the fact that once you get all you want you dont have to stick with the rest of the group to see them get their stuff?

Everyone in your nyzul group will get their rewards in the same time, there will be no sticking around because you will all get the same number of tickets and trade them in for the desired drops. You will all be finished with the event and go back to staring at your moogle, wasting voiddust on that VWNM that you're 0/39846383 on and complaining there's no new challenging content.

You think it's sensible or plausible to release new superior gear every 3 months? Top of the line gear is already very powerful and you want new easily obtainable gear (based on the history of FFXI, 3 months for 15 pieces of armor is most definitely "easily obtainable") to replace the current best every 3 months?
If you did that then you'd need new battle content to release the new gear and use the previous best.

Do you really think the FFXI dev team is actually able to give you brand new content every three months?
Do you really think it's good game design for an MMO to introduce content that will be finished and never-played again in 3 months time from now?
Do you really think it's good business to shorten the lifetime of your MMO by making everything easier to achieve when you know your playerbase will keep playing anyway if it takes longer to achieve?

[Yugl]

So yeah, I do agree that this stuff needs to be challenging to acquire, but also has to be acquirable in a reasonable amount of time by those capable of doing so or else they will have an excuse to sit on their laurels and continue with the dribs and drabs introduction of endgame gear rather than keeping the pace up.

About time someone understood the fucking problem.

Because content shouldn't be catered towards the lowest common denominator. Paying for the game shouldn't automatically give you a free pass to obtaining everything.

If I went out and bought Guitar Hero 17 or whatever the fuck it's up to, I shouldn't automatically be entitled to platinum the game. Just because I am terribad at Guitar Hero games shouldn't mean the developers should dumb down the content to my level so that I can have all the shinies.

Paying for the game gives you the right to play/attempt the content. Not the right to be successful regardless of skill level.

There's a reason difficulty levels are available.

As it stands, even "good" players won't reach 100 without help from gameshark. Your argument simply flops at this point.

[Slycer]

You think it's sensible or plausible to release new superior gear every 3 months? Top of the line gear is already very powerful and you want new easily obtainable gear (based on the history of FFXI, 3 months for 15 pieces of armor is most definitely "easily obtainable") to replace the current best every 3 months?

I realize you were responding to a different poster, but I just wanted to go into a little more detail on what I posted above. I'm not sure if the F100 Nyzul gear was designed with stats representative of what future level 99 gear will be, or whether it was designed with stats thinking very, very few people would get it. I'm inclined to think the latter, but if they do make these changes to Nyzul it will wind up having to be the former. If that turns out to be the case, then I would like to have more options than just Nyzul gear for level 99. Right now F100 gear is basically fake. I know it exists, but no one has it, and very few people will have it with the system the way it is.

Once the changes are made, however, it will not be *easy* to get, but it will be acquirable. This will leave the dev team in a difficult position because the stats on that armor far surpass everything else comparable that's already in the game, and will set a new bar for endgame gear. I don't want to be running around in my Barney coat every time I go on any mage jobs, but I will feel gimp if I don't. So, at least in the short term, I think they really do need to expand rather quickly on the amount of level 99 armor in the game if they make all of the changes they discussed.

All that being said, I think the obvious solution for the dev team is to NOT allow the "trade-up" of KIs (i.e. don't allow level 80 KIs to be turned into level 100 armor). If they do this, I think most people will target F80 gear in the short term (which is far more balanced with current end-game gear), and then strive for F100 in the longer term, which I think is the intent of the event as designed. Large amounts of F100 gear being acquired in the short term will force them into the position I described above.

[danthebk]

Or they could just reskin everything, exactly like they're already doing. Make a progression based system so there's some form of achievement or... progression... So that people don't spam the highest tier and ignore the rest (like voidwatch). I'd kill Byakko 1-10 to get kitty pants +1-+10 because they're an improvement over the old gear. Just don't limit it to 1 per day like salvage/limbus/dynamis/etc. and don't make it an abysmal drop rate like voidwatch or augmenting abj gear.

Reskin all old content a couple dozen times, people will play the events they enjoy, progress toward notreallynew and better gear. Boom, content for the next year or two while they make stuff that is actually new.

Not the greatest idea, but it'd fool me into playing more.

[calinz]

Do you really think the FFXI dev team is actually able to give you brand new content every three months?
Do you really think it's good game design for an MMO to introduce content that will be finished and never-played again in 3 months time from now?

Yes. Yes, I do think it's a good games design. And I have a degree in Games Design for that matter. Because a game is meant to be played for fun. What you're suggesting is that we're all playing the game for the gear. Which is why FFXI is not as successful as games like Guild Wars which had nearly 4 times its subscriptions comparing their peak periods. Guild Wars was free yes. No doubt a large amount of its population is due to that factor. However, what is to keep that population when there's no gear grind? The constant flow of new content. There was an entire new campaign every year and monthly updates. The game is actually fun to play with the different skillsets required for the various tasks instead of getting the same combination of proc jobs everytime. An elementalist could perform various duties other than just nuking the crap out of stuff (like damage mitigation and even healing).

You will all be finished with the event and go back to staring at your moogle..

That just solidifies my point that you're doing the event for the gear not because you're having fun. If an event is fun for you then why not go back and help your friends or ls mates go through the event and get their gear, hmm? Oh wait, it's because there's NOTHING in it for you anymore.

...wasting voiddust on that VWNM that you're 0/39846383 on and complaining there's no new challenging content.

VW is challenging. Botulus Rex is challenging. Making a successful group is a challenge in itself. Fighting and surviving Rex's Chainspell is a challenge because it seems 99% of XI's population are retards and can't click the Fool's Drink fast enough. XI just needs more mobs like that. That can be fought at any time, with no artificial limits like once a day tags, etc.

You think it's sensible or plausible to release new superior gear every 3 months? Top of the line gear is already very powerful and you want new easily obtainable gear (based on the history of FFXI, 3 months for 15 pieces of armor is most definitely "easily obtainable") to replace the current best every 3 months?

If gear is the carrot that you need to do an event, then yes. And the superiority of the gear doesn't have to be huge. It could be a +1 version of the previous event's gear. And they can always refresh old gear and the event it comes from like dynamis. It wouldn't feel like you're doing the same thing again if done correctly. Oh, but wait, then you'd be complaining that you're wearing the same pixels that you did several years ago, amirite?

If you did that then you'd need new battle content to release the new gear and use the previous best.

SE has shown they have no problems releasing new battle systems even with all the PS2 limitations crap. All you need is a rift and an NM. There's your new battle content. VW is incredibly simple and many alterations of it could be spawned in a week's work.

Do you really think it's good business to shorten the lifetime of your MMO by making everything easier to achieve when you know your playerbase will keep playing anyway if it takes longer to achieve?

And this sums up the problem that I described above in detail. Your pixel achievements mean nothing. Zero. Zilch. They'll be gone and forgotten once the game shutsdown and no one will care, not your friends, not your family, not your boss or work collegues. You will have achieved nothing. And you've not even had fun while doing it because it was nothing but an arduous grind of the same events over and over. Fun the first few times maybe... then an incredible chore for the remaining few years until you obtained every piece of gear you needed from them. But maybe not for you, coz by the way you're defending these systems it almost sounds like you're one of the people that use tools to achieve their goals. Making your life easy eh? You don't really get to say anything in that case. Even if the only thing you ever used in your life was fillmode.

[cdgreg]

Didn't get it exactly, but it's around 4-6%. I'd think it's either 0/2.5/5/7.5/10 or 0/2/4/6/8 for the cap sets - or they're all 5.

Thanks, so I can either re-augment add-on head armor or just store the cap lol.

[Yugl]

VW is challenging. Botulus Rex is challenging. Making a successful group is a challenge in itself. Fighting and surviving Rex's Chainspell is a challenge because it seems 99% of XI's population are retards and can't click the Fool's Drink fast enough. XI just needs more mobs like that. That can be fought at any time, with no artificial limits like once a day tags, etc.

And this sums up the problem that I described above in detail. Your pixel achievements mean nothing. Zero. Zilch. They'll be gone and forgotten once the game shutsdown and no one will care, not your friends, not your family, not your boss or work collegues. You will have achieved nothing. And you've not even had fun while doing it because it was nothing but an arduous grind of the same events over and over. Fun the first few times maybe... then an incredible chore for the remaining few years until you obtained every piece of gear you needed from them. But maybe not for you, coz by the way you're defending these systems it almost sounds like you're one of the people that use tools to achieve their goals. Making your life easy eh? You don't really get to say anything in that case. Even if the only thing you ever used in your life was fillmode.

The two strongest points I found in this post. Reflecting upon how people have come to address Bot Rex, I would say that his design was pretty damn good. Moderate groups will win between 2-3 runs. Bad groups won't at all. Good groups will win 4/4. It's not dependent on tools or extreme luck as with Neo-Nyzul. Not to mention we have already done Nyzul Isle as an event back at 75. All that's changed is slightly beefed up mobs and floor progression.

[Taint]

Got a free floor last night!

[Kalmado]

stuff.

I have nothing to add, but I wanted to say I enjoyed reading your post and it was well thought out and has great points.