Free Health Care (Canada)

[Kaylia]

Do I need to point out that all the evidence you posted was from Quebec btw? I realise you live there, but didn't you yourself say that Quebec's government was corrupt and amidst scandal? Maybe there's some mishandling of the province's health transfer?

I have a general medical clinic 5 minute walk from my house that's open something like 8AM to 10PM? Off the top of my head, I know another clinic about 5 minutes drive from my house that's open 24H. And I don't even live in Vancouver's metropolis. I live in the suburbs of North Vancouver.

We are to Canada what Greece is to Europe. Our population is mostly composed of left-wing hippies, union are more powerful than the mafia, the local government spend money it doesn't have, nobody give a shit about the rampant corruption, our infrastructure are falling apart and all that people care about is building a new (public) arena that will only benefit private corporation. Shit is retarded

Yes, everything is poorly managed here, and making thing right against isn't possible because when none of the left winged party (because that's all we have) want to reduce our expense anywhere...or make thing more efficient.

The biggest joke is that nearly half the population want their own country when they can't even manage the province properly. If the vote ever pass, I can assure you that I'm out of this shit hole the day after.

[Kuya]

If given the choice to live in a left-wing shithole or a right-wing shithole, i'd much rather the former, but i suppose i'll have to take your word for it because i know nothing of Quebec.

[Melena]

Anyone against universal healthcare is dumb. Though I do hope that when we finally get it in the US,California gets its head out of its ass and actually builds some walk-in clinics. So weird they have none here. (at last in socal)

They have a couple of walk in hospitals up here, one of which they actually contract the police agency I work for as security since it's in the middle of Oakland. Also it's a shit hole. A 6-8hr wait is considered a good day and you get a bunch of homeless people faking illness to try to get a free bed and meal for the night.

[Sera]

How do you explain the long delay in queues for life threatening surgery? How do you explain that people died in waiting room without getting checked? However, nobody really give a damn about stuff like that because no one is really aware of the real cost of healthcare. Everything is free, so who cares how much it cost!

Free is probably better than losing your house and everything you own, or DYING anyway, and leaving your family with NOTHING but medical bills, but hey, what do I know.

Do other countries just live in this delusional happy retard zone where they think Americans don't have to wait in line for hours for emergency care? "I know this guy who waited 8 hours! OMG!" Did you not hear about this?

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-01/u...enter?_s=PM:US

Oh yeah, you know ONE GUY who waited 8 hours and lost his APPENDIX! that sounds really rough. That lady waited 24 hours for care, died in the waiting room ON THE FLOOR SEIZING, and essentially was given the Dave Chappelle "sprinkle some crack on 'em and walk on" treatment.

Again, it is NOT the fault of UHS in general, but the execution of it in canada seems to be poor. Maybe you guys should stop trying to look conservative/apply conservative thinking while executing a progressive concept! Then you won't fail miserably at it. You can't be a stingy shithead and expect your UHS to work. Your system isn't perfect, but hey, you could be losing your shirt to pay for it! So I guess what I'm saying is, your complaints ring hollow to anyone who doesn't have UHS.

[Sera]

right-wing shithole.

we have one of those, it is called guantanamo bay

[Melena]

Do other countries just live in this delusional happy retard zone where they think Americans don't have to wait in line for hours for emergency care? "I know this guy who waited 8 hours! OMG!" Did you not hear about this?

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-01/u...enter?_s=PM:US

Oh yeah, you know ONE GUY who waited 8 hours and lost his APPENDIX! that sounds really rough.

Again, it is NOT the fault of UHS in general, but the execution of it in canada seems to be poor. Maybe you guys should stop trying to look conservative/apply conservative thinking while executing a progressive concept! Then you won't fail miserably at it. You can't be a stingy shithead and expect your UHS to work.

I remember about 20 years ago playing little league, I took a pitch off my hand as I was swinging a bat. Everyone thought I shattered it with the fact it immediately swelled to about 3x the size and was black and blue. 5 hrs in the ER later, I finally had X-Rays done. Every time it was my turn to go in something horrible happened. Nurse told me they had a gunshot victim, an elderly woman suffering a stroke, and a 4 yo who had a book case fall on them. Since I wasn't in a position where i'd die, I kept getting pushed back. Shit happens.

[Sera]

a 4 yo who had a book case fall on them.

Honestly all i can think of now is this

[Melena]

Honestly all i can think of now is this

Oh shit, thank you good sir. I needed a laugh like this after today. And yea I never found out how the bookcase fell on the kid, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was something like that.

[hey]

Oh yeah, you know ONE GUY who waited 8 hours and lost his APPENDIX! that sounds really rough.

Hey, that was the most miserable 3 weeks of my life when my appendix ruptured.

[Sera]

i bet you were so happy to get that thing out of you

[hey]

i bet you were so happy to get that thing out of you

Not really. Even with all the morphine, i was in far too much pain to be happy about anything.

[Kaylia]

How would you reform?

For one, allow private clinics to operate freely. Unless you enjoy seeing someone with money sit 18 hours in a waiting room, or clutter the waiting list for a surgery, nobody is benefiting from this. Not only would you create local jobs by allowing this (because many actually go outside the country/state for this), you would remove some stress on the public system.

Secondly, introduce a small cost (30-50$ per visit) that can be refunded when you're in need. People will think twice before wasting everyone's money on some stupid shit like a bleeding nose. It's not the main issue, but everything help.

Thirdly, there is no reason why public hospital shouldn't be managed as efficiently as private one are. Our system cost an average of 6000$/person to manages (35billions/population). It doesn't even include the cost of medicine on top of this (handled by Canada), and you're also forced to take a private health insurance for the rest (mine is over 1000$ a years). In the end, it's probably an average of 9000$ per person every years. What kind of health insurance can you get for that price around the world?

How exactly would I reform this? This is a tough question, but I do believe the solution lies somewhere in a semi public/private system, or an extremely regulated private system. A good start would be to fire everyone who is incompetent, but that's not possible with the unions.

[Belragga]

I have a few aunts and cousins who have been nurses for over 20 years and they all say the long waits are a direct result of mismanagement and a lack of doctors and hospital beds due to budget cuts that have been going on for over a decade. This is all information given to me by people who have seen the degradation of the health care system first hand so take it as you will.

All B.C. nurses btw.

[Kaylia]

Do other countries just live in this delusional happy retard zone where they think Americans don't have to wait in line for hours for emergency care? "I know this guy who waited 8 hours! OMG!" Did you not hear about this?

Again, the average wait time here is 18 hours in a waiting room before seeing any doctors, it's not the worst case scenario. It's well documented, and I posted multiples link for this. I also posted a coroner investigation that blame the long wait time. I posted a link that show how much longer the wait time for life threatening surgery is. If they were exception, it would be different.

Again, it is NOT the fault of UHS in general, but the execution of it in canada seems to be poor. Maybe you guys should stop trying to look conservative/apply conservative thinking while executing a progressive concept! Then you won't fail miserably at it. You can't be a stingy shithead and expect your UHS to work. Your system isn't perfect, but hey, you could be losing your shirt to pay for it! So I guess what I'm saying is, your complaints ring hollow to anyone who doesn't have UHS.

Could you please quote where I said otherwise?

However, I do believe that poor management is a direct consequence of anything handled by the state. In this case, you have the choice between making someone rich, or wasting your money on a poorly managed system. We are looking at two devils, and I don't believe any offer the right solution to the issue.

[Kuya]

For one, allow private clinics to operate freely. Unless you enjoy seeing someone with money sit 18 hours in a waiting room, or clutter the waiting list for a surgery, nobody is benefiting from this. Not only would you create local jobs by allowing this (because many actually go outside the country/state for this), you would remove some stress on the public system.

Secondly, introduce a small cost (30-50$ per visit) that can be refunded when you're in need. People will think twice before wasting everyone's money on some stupid shit like a bleeding nose. It's not the main issue, but everything help.

Thirdly, there is no reason why public hospital shouldn't be managed as efficiently as private one are. Our system cost an average of 6000$/person to manages (35billions/population). It doesn't even include the cost of medicine on top of this (handled by Canada), and you're also forced to take a private health insurance for the rest (mine is over 1000$ a years). In the end, it's probably an average of 9000$ per person every years. What kind of health insurance can you get for that price around the world?

How exactly would I reform this? This is a tough question, but I do believe the solution lies somewhere in a semi public/private system, or an extremely regulated private system.

I'll take 1 and 2, and leave number 3. Efficiency in the private sector means cost cutting, and cost cutting when it comes to health and labour isn't generally in favour of the consumer (health) or labour.

[Greatguardian]

Secondly, introduce a small cost (30-50$ per visit) that can be refunded when you're in need. People will think twice before wasting everyone's money on some stupid shit like a bleeding nose. It's not the main issue, but everything help.

Dammit Jim, you're a Physicist not a Doctor.

Preventative care is best care, and is significantly cheaper for both the patient and the hospital system. Scaring people away from going to the doctor early, when they're seeing warning signs is positively terrible and can lead to significantly more tragic and costly operations down the road. For all this jibber-jabber about freeloaders wasting the ER's time with colds, it is much worse to see people die or undergo costly, invasive surgery from 100% preventable causes because they were too broke or too inundated with this bullshit "Real men walk it off and don't waste the people's money on doctor's visits" rhetoric to just go see a fucking doctor.

Should you be going to the ER for sniffles? Hell no. But do I really care about how long you're waiting to have your broken arm looked at? Absolutely not. Last I checked, you're not dying. That automatically puts you pretty low on the radar. The problem is a lack of general care. You don't need to go to the ER for the sniffles but you should be going to a doctor if you're sick, period.

If money's an issue, just get rid of the Canadian military. It's not like it'll ever be used for anything, and your geographic proximity to the United States means we probably won't let anything happen to you anyways. Terrorists? On our hat? Fuck that noise.

[Kuya]

I think a small fee isn't really an awful thing. People tend to be less judicious with things that are free and tend to put more thought into what they do when it costs them something tangible. I think it's always a good idea to put a small non prohibitive price on public goods to make sure people don't abuse it as much as they would if it were free.

[Sera]

I think a small fee isn't really an awful thing. People tend to be less judicious with things that are free and tend to put more thought into what they do when it costs them something tangible. I think it's always a good idea to put a small non prohibitive price on public goods to make sure people don't abuse it as much as they would if it were free.

Depends on the place you're going. I think the fee should be weighed based on whether or not the affliction is appropriate for the place you seek care. If you go to your normal MD for a URI, that's appropriate. If you take your sniffles to the ER, there should be a penalty in the form of a fee. Don't like it? Go to the right place next time then.

[Sera]

My phone wont allow me to edit that for some reason but I want to add: in the system i would design, a simple fracture would get penalized with a copay fee (or however you want to phrase it) for seeking ER care, that shit would belong at urgent. If you can see bone coming out of the skin, come on down to the ER. Otherwise, nope!

[RKenshin]

http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2010/html-eng.asp

http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2010/dollar-eng.jpg

Depends on how you want to look at it. The realistic answer is no, not even close.

I think I might've misunderstood the original statement.

I read it as "50% of my paycheck goes directly to healthcare taxes", not "50% of our government tax burden is healthcare." The latter is far more understandable.