Marijuana Legalization/Decriminalization Efforts

[Jeryhn]

I trust nature to produce something far superior than pharmaceutical companies who make pills with side effects worse than the problem they're attempting to fix.

Basically, if it's not broken don't fix it, and it certainly isn't broken.

Let me guess. Are you also one of those idiots that thinks vitamin and protein supplements are useless? Perhaps you're also concerned with the fact that a flu vaccine might also give you the sniffles?

"Trusting nature" is the lamest crutch a hippie pot enthusiast can come up with when it comes to arguments for legalization. Did you know nature also makes things that can kill you? When was the last time you pet a pissed off rattlesnake? What makes you so distrustful of science?

[BaneTheBrawler]

"You know what else is natural? Bears."

[Pikarya]

Supplements are useless. Stop being a poorfriend and get the vitamin straight from where it comes from.

[Salodin]

Supplements are useless. Stop being a poorfriend and get the vitamin straight from where it comes from.

You never go full hippie.

[Plow]

Let me guess. Are you also one of those idiots that thinks vitamin and protein supplements are useless? Perhaps you're also concerned with the fact that a flu vaccine might also give you the sniffles?

"Trusting nature" is the lamest crutch a hippie pot enthusiast can come up with when it comes to arguments for legalization. Did you know nature also makes things that can kill you? When was the last time you pet a pissed off rattlesnake? What makes you so distrustful of science?

I already pointed this out: he's not talking about some snake oil shit.

He's talking about the proven medical benefits of pot over shit like loading people up with morphine or putting them on percocet for the rest of their life.

[ronin sparthos]

What makes you so distrustful of science?

Because science has never once been used to service the ends of companies rather than logical public policy.

[dejet]

And weed would be any different once legal, how?

You want/need something your going to pay for it. Science will go to work with it once legal.

Also your local drug dealer is someone to trust over deeply studied science. Yup.

[archibaldcrane]

I already pointed this out: he's not talking about some snake oil shit.

He's talking about the proven medical benefits of pot over shit like loading people up with morphine or putting them on percocet for the rest of their life.

He said the "trusting nature" line in response to the idea that the active ingredients in marijuana could be pharmaceuticalized.

The idea that marijuana, as grown, is the ideal drug for the multitude of ailments it is used to treat, and that smoking it is the ideal delivery method, and that "nature shouldn't be messed with" is absurd.

[Jeryhn]

Because science has never once been used to service the ends of companies rather than logical public policy.

I suppose pot dealers exist only as a beneficial service and are totally not concerned with advancing their own profits.

He said the "trusting nature" line in response to the idea that the active ingredients in marijuana could be pharmaceuticalized.

The idea that marijuana, as grown, is the ideal drug for the multitude of ailments it is used to treat, and that smoking it is the ideal delivery method, and that "nature shouldn't be messed with" is absurd.

^ Fucking this.

Take, for instance, vitamin C tablets.
Chemically, this is the same exact substance you would find in an orange. The difference between the tablets and an orange isn't the "quality" of the substance, it's everything else that's included in the orange. This is also why vitamin supplements are referred to as, well, supplements.

The same would be true of any pharmaceutical version of marijuana. In fact, the fact that smoking weed actually changes what you are consuming chemically should be a pretty big concern for proponents of legalization, but it doesn't seem to be because 420 BLAZE IT.

[zoobernut]

There are a lot of examples of people that are using medical marijuana that are not smoking it. I am not sure why people focus just on smoking it.

As for the vitamins and supplements argument I don't think there is anything wrong with vitamins and supplements however a lot of people that take them indiscriminately do not realize that often they are taking too much and their bodies end up passing through most of the pill, so they could be taking a less expensive smaller pill closer to what they actually need and save some money. There are also people who eat diets that do give them enough of everything and they don't really need to take supplements. Jehryn is right too eating an orange over a vitamin c pill gives you the same vitamin c that the pill does but you also get fiber and other nutritional value from it.

In the same way as vitamin c vs. an orange I can see a valid reason for someone to choose to consume marijuana in a "natural" way either by smoking it or consuming it in a food but for a lot of people there will be a ton of value in a pharmaceutical company breaking it down and concentrating it into a pill as well as extracting only the key compounds they want for given effects one is more of a catch all solution while the other may provide us with several different pills that treat different things with scalpel like precision.

[Plow]

He said the "trusting nature" line in response to the idea that the active ingredients in marijuana could be pharmaceuticalized.

ic, didn't notice that, nevermind lol

[noblemountain]

Not to mention that your body processes vitamins and minerals from food better than a pill. My girlfriend is a vegetarian and I am not, so I wanted to make sure she was eating the best possible for her lifestyle. I went and researched foods and the different things we could substitute for what she's missing from meat, and then planned her diet around that. The result is that she has much more energy now and is feeling better in general. She knows she'll never be able to get "everything" that she would get from eating meat, but we've gotten it narrowed down pretty well. While I was doing that, I also reworked my own diet and now all I have to take is a potassium supplement because fuck bananas.

Taking vitamins is great if you're not getting what you need from food, but it is rare that they don't over do-it on certain vitamins (which your body has to process out then). It is like those people taking that emergen-c shit. Taking 1000% of your daily recommended value of anything is dumb. Your kidneys have to work to get rid of that shit later and it doesn't help you one bit.

[Dotsudoku]

That doesn't seem like an argument for foods being generally superior to pills, rather it seems as if your issue is with pills who go about it improperly.

I'm hardly a biologist, but assuming that nutritious foods are inherently better at delivering their product to your body seems.. wrong

[noblemountain]

Quick reference: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/supplements/NU00198

[Kohan]

There are a lot of examples of people that are using medical marijuana that are not smoking it. I am not sure why people focus just on smoking it.

I was personally wondering where this thread was going, and was confused by a number of the posts made, but I'll comment on this particular topic:

There are very valid reasons for smoking—and the kinder, more efficient delivery option, vaporizing—to be considered before other delivery methods. For one, it is essentially impossible to overdose when you consume marijuana via those methods (http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...j_overdose.htm). It isn't literally impossible, but given the necessary criteria for an overdose, it may as well be. Additionally, when one smokes or vapes, they receive the intended beneficial effects; another delivery option, in the very vast majority of cases, is not necessary.

Building upon that idea, consider the other components that may be added into pharmaceutical cannabinoids, and the issues already created by imitations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis).

Additionally, you will find the argument made that marijuana smoke contains significantly more carcinogens than tobacco smoke, and this is often used as a blanket argument against all forms of legalization, whether for recreational or medical reasons. Fortunately, marijuana counteracts this naturally (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/).

Now, before I conclude this post, let me be clear: I do not always agree with the "natural is better" mantra, because that is not unconditionally true. That is why I was a bit befuddled by where this thread was going. However, in the case of marijuana, there isn't a dire need for anything else. The only people who would require another means of consuming cannabinoids would be those who simply could not smoke or vape (this being the minority alluded to above); for everyone else, there is no great reason not to.

[Plow]

It isn't literally impossible, but given the necessary criteria for an overdose, it may as well be.

nah, until anyone can prove otherwise, it's impossible to OD on pot, no matter how much or how you ingest it

you'd prob die of carbon monoxide poisoning before anything else

[Kohan]

nah, until anyone can prove otherwise, it's impossible to OD on pot, no matter how much or how you ingest it

you'd prob die of carbon monoxide poisoning before anything else

No, it's possible—you would need to use a concentrated solution, rather than expect someone to overdose on smoking, vaporizing, or eating—but it's so extremely improbable that it may as well be considered impossible.

Basically, in extremely concentrated form, it could become a depressant so powerful that the patient's body shuts down. This has been proven in rats, but was very difficult even then, and hasn't been proven in anything larger.

It's a matter of semantics, though it's also why I'm pro-smoking/vaping/eating.

[Plow]

No, it's possible—you would need to use a concentrated solution, rather than expect someone to overdose on smoking, vaporizing, or eating—but it's so extremely improbable that it may as well be considered impossible.

Basically, in extremely concentrated form, it could become a depressant so powerful that the patient's body shuts down. This has been proven in rats, but was very difficult even then, and hasn't been proven in anything larger.

It's a matter of semantics, though it's also why I'm pro-smoking/vaping/eating.

I've always read that tests have been inconclusive, i.e. nothing died.

I can't find any actual conclusive tests, either. I'm finding pretty consistent claims that it's a 40k/1 tox/intox ratio, though. So I guess there's something out there.

[shepardG]

Did u just say "fuck bananas"?

I will fight you IRL.

[Byrthnoth]

If you eat pot you get "first pass effects" in the liver and general digestion going on, so a lot of the potency of the pot is lost. If you smoke it, the compounds enter your blood stream in the lungs and only briefly return to the heart before getting pumped straight into your brain. That's the logic behind inhalation.