Marijuana Legalization/Decriminalization Efforts

[archibaldcrane]

Even the effects of driving while high are extremely exaggerated. I don't see that being an issue at all in regards to there being actual accidents caused. I do see an issue in regards to law enforcement wanting a way to "test" for High Driving, like they do with alcohol.

As someone who may have gotten stopped at a checkpoint, and put through the whole rig-a-ma-roll of a DUI Checkpoint while I was still pretty high, they have no way of checking for it using current methods. The only way to test for THC Content is through a blood test, which obviously cannot be administered road side.

It does not impair your motor skills or thought process like alcohol. I did the reverse alphabet, the fingers touching the nose, the walk the line test, and obviously the breathalyzer all just fine. The only reason they pulled me out of the car in the first place was because my pupils did not dilate when the cop put the flashlight in my eyes. Alcohol has the same effect in regards to pupils not dilating.

I am a terrible, terrible high driver. I'll blank out for a quarter mile at a time, run red lights, whatever. I just can't maintain focus on the road. I'm much safer on the road at 0.12 BAC than I am after one hit of medical grade weed.

Everyone is different.

[Kohan]

That is why, despite my being one of the most devoted campaigners for marijuana legalization you'll see, I do not condone driving under the influence. Whether it's alcohol, weed, or practically anything else, I do not support it.

Now, I do recognize that, in an ideal world, there will be people whose current medications would be replaced by marijuana, who would then need to drive somewhere. So long as it's prescribed in a manner that respects this, I am all right with that. It's not the same as recreational use and subsequent careless driving.

[Roranora]

I am a terrible, terrible high driver. I'll blank out for a quarter mile at a time, run red lights, whatever. I just can't maintain focus on the road. I'm much safer on the road at 0.12 BAC than I am after one hit of medical grade weed.

Everyone is different.

Do you feel like bored of the drive, or mind elsewhere or what? I know and agree everyone is different, especially with bodies' responses to some top-shelf weed; I'm just curious & interested. Wondering if it's more the sativa or indica strains and if the other might not wreck you so badly. Do you enjoy the highs even? Like, clearly not a road trip, but what would seem like something that could maintain your focus?


It also might come some with familiarity to/with the substance and situation. I'm not condoning it, with alcohol or cannabis, but one can slightly 'improve' at drunk driving with experience. It's obviously still and always reckless and dangerous. And maybe that's just being from Kansas where it seems like everyone drives drunk all the time weekly, continuously, for years on end. Some die. Some get a DUI or a couple, some dodge bullets, etc.. but nonetheless they're seemingly fearless driving home from the bars. I've got several friends who are probably as 'adept' as archie with cruising after 6-10 drinks.

Conversely, I am fortunate enough to respond to weed where I feel fine and drive the same sort of safe/defensive/responsive. I mean, it's not like I'm better at driving high (unless I'm handling Toadette on a kart). I just can still do it... while also getting enjoyment of the high. If it were some high stress, traffic jam-type shit, I'm sure I could do that too, but it would totally buzzkill with the high, and shit would be terrible overall. It's usually reserved more for a longer trip and/or a group in the car. A few sessions can really knock out some chunks of highway, if that's what you're doing.

[Gredival]

I'll predict that federal legislation will okay all commercial transport of all cannabis & hemp products on US interstates and highways. (Anything less than at least this is a huge failure on behalf of our lawmakers.) If a state wants to continue to criminalize it, at the very least, they must allow commercial thru-transport.

That's an interesting question. Generally, states can't pass laws that discriminate against interstate commerce or unfairly burden interstate commercial compared to domestic interests, so a prohibition on transporting weed and the state laws that make possession illegal would definitely be biased against interstate commerce on face. But the states could argue they have a legitimate interest in upholding the illegality of a controlled substance within their borders that presents a justifiable reason. I think it would turn a lot on how substances that are currently prohibited in some states, but legal in others, are handled and the transportation regulations for them.

But how would this even come up? I imagine that the only states that would allow the cultivation of the plant would be states where it was legal, either entirely or medicinally. Those states tend to be clustered together geographically. I can't see Californian growers really shipping a whole semi of the stuff past the hold-out central and mid-west states to dispensaries in the eastern seaboard.

[Roranora]

It's not just Cali shipping weed east; besides, companies in CO would be better positioned largely. I-70 will win -- no significant terrain from Denver to Baltimore. I guess CA can do I-40 to I-44 and then you're in St. Louis, as long as Oklahoma stays out of the way and enjoys their Lucifer and Lord Hanuman statues. Just Missouri and Illinois alone changing legislation would change the perception that it's all east/west coasts with a massive void in between, and I don't think either of these states is that far off.

Anyway, transport will be more for industrial hemp products I'd think. Whether it's veggie patties from hemp seeds or clothes or rope or whatever. At least for one thing, we can grow domestically instead of importing from China; although we don't import that much at all (want to say only like $300M/yr), because hemp products are neither marketed nor interesting to the average consumer here. Obviously, forgetting about the crop for 100+ years will contribute to people forgetting its uses, but it's all the endless number of <1% THC strains that'll be turned into something and stuffed into a semi (the threshold for federal gov't to differentiate between marijuana and industrial hemp). The intoxicating products won't be too distributed until cannabis has some of its big players identified.

I saw this damn Bacardi commercial with a snippet of 'flourishing' during prohibition or whatever. If the Anheuser-Buschs or Bacardis of weed were all already known, and 150+ years established, it wouldn't be such a stretch to imagine marijuana business conducted similarly.

[Quixon]

I am a terrible, terrible high driver. I'll blank out for a quarter mile at a time, run red lights, whatever. I just can't maintain focus on the road. I'm much safer on the road at 0.12 BAC than I am after one hit of medical grade weed.

Everyone is different.

I agree 100%. My point was more or less that there is no real non-biased scientific test that has been done in regards to how being high on weed affects driving. Until they hash that out, it's kind of tough to test and regulate that aspect.

I don't ever condone driving High or Drunk, especially not drunk, because like you said.... everyone is different. I personally tend to drive slower than normal, that's about it. I tend to roll stop signs and speed (5-10MPH over the limit) when I'm not high, NY always in a rush mentality I guess. If I'm baked I'd drive the speed limit and count the damn seconds I'm stopped at the stop sign lol.

Driving drunk.... no thanks. I drove drunk twice when I was 21-22, I made it to my destination both times, but I can confidently say that was because it was like 2-3am and no one was on the roads. This was before I started smoking weed, I get drunk maybe 3-4 times a year now lol. Birthdays, major holidays, etc.


Kind of going on a tangent here. Just wanted to clarify it's stupid to condone DUI. At the same time, it's important for states and the country (when the time comes) to enact real science based legislation in regards to MJ legalization. Simply carrying the rules used for alcohol don't always work. THC stays in your system for a long time, especially if you smoke a lot. I'd test positive for THC if my last hit was a week+ ago lol.

[Roranora]

grumble grumble, cannabinoids and fat cells, sigh. Need to first squash the urinalysis for MJ... until then, synthetic urine it'll have to be. Please don't test my hair either, thx =l

related: the worst thing that'll happen from driving high (not archie driving) is that you'll come to a complete stop at a flashing yellow light

[Salodin]

grumble grumble, cannabinoids and fat cells, sigh. Need to first squash the urinalysis for MJ... until then, synthetic urine it'll have to be. Please don't test my hair either, thx =l

related: the worst thing that'll happen from driving high (not archie driving) is that you'll come to a complete stop at a flashing yellow light

We already have the tests to determine if you've smoked within the past 5 hours. If that's what you're searching for. Honestly, I'm of the opinion the test should be standard when sobriety testing some one you expect to be DUI.

[Roranora]

Right that's what I'm saying -- the pre-employment testing for something that may have been 30-50 days ago (or longer with hair) is garbage. Of course, employers can do what they want, but something quick and easy that only sees like 5 hours into the past is much better and if suitable roadside, the sort of sobriety testing that should be administered.

[SephYuyX]

Curious.
Even though pot is now "legal" in a couple places, can businesses still reject applicants / current employees for it by way of drug screens?

[Waraji]

Curious.
Even though pot is now "legal" in a couple places, can businesses still reject applicants / current employees for it by way of drug screens?

Damn right they are. You can't show up to a job drunk off your ass that has a Zero Tolerance policy for that type of thing. Same goes for drugs still legal or illegal. The only case I can see there still being an debate over this is for Medical Purpose marijuana.

Mainly speaking about Private Businesses though. Although I'm sure it still plays out similarly in the Public sector.

Just apply everything that is done in respect to Alcohol with Marijuana instead.

It's kind of hard to debate though, this early into the legalization phenomenon. You can go out and get drunk after getting out of work, and have it be completely out of your system by the next morning when you clock in. The same can't be said about Marijuana, or other similar medications.

The debate then becomes at what point is the Marijuana still affecting an individuals ability to perform their duties in a work place environment. Until that is hashed out by studies when this does become legal, I highly doubt there will be any kind of tolerance towards the liberal use of it in the work place.

[Azull]

Yes, You can still get denied a job or lose a job for failing a drug test, including if you fail due to Marijuana. Even if it was fully legal you could get denied or lose a job for it. If you have a DOT regulated job for example and get into an accident they will test you for alcohol within 24 hours of the accident. If you fail.. bad news.

Edit : I should note that a prescription would usually be enough to test positive for a drug and still pass. The amounts and the type of the chemicals in your system will usually give the lab a clue as to what you are on and they will be able to verify that with the prescription. Weather or not a Marijuana prescription is seen as valid or not at this time I cannot say.

[SephYuyX]

So if it's still illegal in the eyes of a business (Waraji, im not so much talking about coming in high, but having it come up in a screen days/weeks later since it sticks around in your system), basically the only people who are now smoking "legal" pot, are the people who would be smoking it regardless of legality.

I wouldn't risk smoking it even if it were legal because I like getting money from my job.

Does pot legality just further increase the gap btwn the poor and rich? No one trying to get in a good job will smoke it, but people who don't have any ambitions are basically now given the "ok" to smoke since it's legal, and when/if they try for a job, it will pop up on their screen, and will be denied.

Until businesses treat pot like alcohol where it's of course bad to be under the influence, but ok to have it appear on a screen days/weeks/months later, pot may as well continue to be illegal.

[Azull]

Most places don't drug test unless they have too...it cost them money.

[Waraji]

Most places don't drug test unless they have too...it cost them money.

Pretty much this.

I've never smoked, nor do I plan on it, or have aspirations of beginning to smoke, ever (tobacco or other). But I am a proponent of legalization from an economical and social viewpoint. Personally when it comes to a Private company, quite honestly its up to the individual at that point to weigh their options of whether its something(smoke pot) they want to do or not, based on the rules set by their company.

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to smoke, nor holding a gun to someone looking for/in a demanding high paying job (quite frankly the amount of pay or quality of work is irrelevant in my opinion.)

The legalization debate is all about Choices, choices we're being denied because some stickler from Way back When who was brought up on certain Outdated Moral/Religious background says we aren't allowed to make.

I won't bother to think about it, but there are probably hundreds of different Jobs out there where having residual THC in your system wouldn't be a problem. But I think it's up to the courts, voters, individuals, and private business to designate what those jobs are, if they so choose to do so.

Until businesses treat pot like alcohol where it's of course bad to be under the influence, but ok to have it appear on a screen days/weeks/months later, pot may as well continue to be illegal.

Practically so, but you have to start with legalization in order to get those questions/concerns answered. Something we can't do now because of the stigmata it gets, and the whole being illegal part too.

[Quixon]

First thing to keep in mind.... Just because a job drug tests, it has no bearing on if it's a "good" or "bad" job. Most places also do not drug test for pre-employment, it's expensive. Now incident related drug tests are another story. I know plenty of places that do that and agree it should be done.

I would also expect once marijuana is legalized that the few employers who do drug test would augment the policies.

This 5 hour THC test that was mentioned would address pretty much all concerns in regards to pre-employment, or incident related employment drug tests. I need to read up about that, as I have previously never heard of it before.

I've never smoked, nor do I plan on it, or have aspirations of beginning to smoke, ever (tobacco or other).

What about edibles? I'm only asking more so for my own knowledge. I have a few friends that will not smoke anything, they'll eat weed cookies no problem though lol. Is it the act of smoking, or the act of altering your mood/mental state that you do not subscribe to?

[Roranora]

Shopped again last night, continuing to check out a variety of stores. Had some fun dialogue with the counter assistance there -- and on the topic of edibles, I pointed out to her the difference in calories between the 312 in the cookies&cream bar and a gummy with equal amounts active THC but only 68 calories. She agreed that for some people on a strict calorie limit might need to avoid many edibles. I refrained from dropping a Cream Soda, but at least I gave some BGthread discussion out into Denver -- too which she enthusiastically pointed out the non-smoked, low-to-zero calorie options, like chews, gummies, tiny candies or capsules. Kudos for her good service~

I'm a little skeptical about the capsules, but dunno, never tried. Also haven't tried the drinks or elixirs. But I want to drink one from a bar (alcohol involved too) that looks like a potion from Zelda or (/random) this tej or something. None have caught my eye enough yet I guess.

a potent elixir with sambuca, thc tea, lemon, honey.. something, Yes plz. When can I get served one of those at a beach-side bar?

Spoiler: show

Ethiopian tej

[Tyrath]

lol'd in class! Teacher looked at me weird

Oh well. Hakuna Matata, amirite.

[Waraji]

What about edibles? I'm only asking more so for my own knowledge. I have a few friends that will not smoke anything, they'll eat weed cookies no problem though lol. Is it the act of smoking, or the act of altering your mood/mental state that you do not subscribe to?

Ah, good point. Yes, mood/mental state alteration via chemical/herbal means. It's mostly a personal choice, as I don't look down on others that do, never have. Although I do have the capacity and wilk to drink like a horse if the occasion arises.

[archibaldcrane]

Do you feel like bored of the drive, or mind elsewhere or what? I know and agree everyone is different, especially with bodies' responses to some top-shelf weed; I'm just curious & interested. Wondering if it's more the sativa or indica strains and if the other might not wreck you so badly. Do you enjoy the highs even? Like, clearly not a road trip, but what would seem like something that could maintain your focus?

Granted, I don't smoke often at all, haven't in a couple years probably, probably did most regularly in summers during high school but even then, once a week, maybe? And that was shitty weed. But still, it would be like "ok, I'm high, I'm driving, gotta pay attention to the road. Gotta pay attention to the road." *2 minutes later* "ooooh fuck man I don't even remember the last mile holy shit I gotta pay attention to the road!"

I'm not a weed guru to the point where I know if I smoked sativa or indica, so no idea really. But yeah, I do enjoy being high occasionally, I just prefer drinking and doing both doesn't really work for me.