Marijuana Legalization/Decriminalization Efforts

[Plow]

as for personal experience, I've known people that said they got visuals from eating, never had it myself tho

[Roranora]

Stupid things I've seen people do to get their fixes.

1, wouldn't they now have to do less to get 'their fix'? how easily do alcoholics get booze?
2, humor us with these stupid things. what stupid things have you seen your pothead friends/acquaintances do? seriously, niggas aren't killin niggas for a bowl of the herb

At what percentage of drug-related crime increases (theft of, theft of other items to sell and buy, injuries/murders during theft, traffic accidents, cases of neglect) would you step back and say, "Well, maybe this wasn't such a good idea..."?

see, now you just went full retard if you think those are going up cause weed is at a corner store

My utter dislike of mind altering substance consumption for recreational purpose is one thing...

oh.. well that's what this is all about

..but they're also negatively linked to other things I don't want to see happening to anyone.

barbaric behavior and cannabis are linked like competence and your post

I'm not inclined to believe so given the vast majority's lack of need for the stuff.

I'll agree with that. We don't need THC. Or alcohol or fast food. But this crap's out there, and I'll be damned if I say people can't have that shit if they want it so badly, and can enjoy without the sky falling.

If she wants to be a fuckwit and imply all naysayers are all racist curmudgeons, that's her right. They're not. Just as I know not all pot smokers are lazy do-nothing hippies. There are bad people on both sides.

This shit's a lot older than Nixon, but yeah, quite clearly, he was a bigot. Nixon's just made the most significant contribution recently -- that is, contribution to the current generations' misunderstanding of cannabis. People were led astray long ago, but now we've got a few states wandering to the other side.

[Kohan]

If she wants to be a fuckwit and imply all naysayers are all racist curmudgeons, that's her right.

Fortunately for me, I have not done so, and never would.

I believe Roranora handled the rest rather admirably.

[arus2001]

2, humor us with these stupid things. what stupid things have you seen your pothead friends/acquaintances do? seriously, niggas aren't killin niggas for a bowl of the herb

Relevance will naturally vary simply because you're not me, but I'll toss out a few. First off, I had to part ways with a childhood friend of 18 years as getting baked progressively became more and more important to him. Go out? Nope. Split cash on a new game? Spent on a stash. Conversation quality? Progressively worsened. Second, relative to the stanky ass smell of the stuff, my college days suffered due to my roommates lighting up and the scent agitating my vulnerability to migraines. Literal pain aside, late night tokings often led to me having to retreat to a friend's dorm just to get some shitty sleep on a couch. This being an art school, working on projects wasn't always as easy as just closing a book and changing locations to escape the stuff, either. Third involved my sister and a simple request to pick me up from a train station after a trip. She deemed getting blazed the night before far more important, resulting in her being a no-show, me waiting 6 hours being unable to get ahold of her, and eventually having to call my mother to drive cross-state and pick me up. This was pretty much the last time I've ever chosen to ask a favor of her. Fourth is more a general interaction between co-workers at various jobs and the occasional customer, be it smelling of the stuff, their behavior obviously compromised, and the typically annoying indoctrination tactics despite professing a lack of interest. Why I dislike the smell should be obvious there. Covering their ass because they can't work as well was annoying. Pot may as well be religion to some, both in aspects for and against, and I'm not keen on that, either.

Have I been directly involved with violence? No. And I'm glad for that. Yet I still hear of local incidents of drug busts, some not always peaceful. Overall, my concern for increased access involves people who might not have otherwise touched the stuff doing so. And if they like it? Fine. When it starts becoming a focus in their life? That's when I fear it leading to the undesired social effects (mirroring my own or completely original) and possible crimes, petty or major, if their means do not support their desire. I've also otherwise avoided the gateway argument up until now, but in that increased potential user pool, I wouldn't doubt instances of people going, "Well, that wasn't so bad..." and indeed trying harder stuff. Same problems then risk repeating. As is, I'd like for the medical science to improve, or even better, find cures for the conditions its prescribed for. I also feel other drugs, like anti-depressants, are too quickly prescribed. There's lots of other bad shit out there that shouldn't be out there, but the whole, "Just let them burn themselves..." mentality feels utterly inhuman to me given the collective purpose of society being to improve the lives of the individuals within it. If someone hates their life so much that they need to light up at the end of the day to get through it, they need help, not more weed. And I'd say the same for beer, wine, valium, psychadelic mushrooms, or whatever other non-essential substance gets ingested.

So, really, I'm a turrible, turrible person.

[Kohan]

As is, I'd like for the medical science to improve

Fortunately, it is—hence the increased acceptance of marijuana being used for medicinal purposes, and its growing recommendation over drastically more harmful pharmaceuticals.

It will continue to spread accordingly. No one will have to "take a step back," as you've implied; after all, we're moving forward, as the original decision was not based in scientific reality.

If you truly supported scientific advances, and wisely-made decisions based on fact-gathering, you would support this. As I explained to you in that thread from 2009, prohibition is not beneficial. You're concerned with a growing crime rate, but every state that still practices alcohol prohibition has the highest percentage of related crimes and deaths (in relation to their total population), whereas those that don't are notably safer.

Further, if you believed that science should triumph over all, you would also analyze the situation adequately, discovering that your claims about addiction are untrue (as THC is not an addictive substance, unlike nicotine and alcohol), that the "gateway drug" mentality has also been dis-proven, and that the majority of incarcerated users do not go on to a life of crime, not to mention any harder crimes at all. Even those that do cannot have their cases immediately blamed on marijuana, as the correlation between initial incarceration leading to a greater likelihood of future crimes applies across the board.

What you are stating does not have any grounding in reality. It is the trickle-down effect of a few generations of racism-fueled decisions. Beyond the scientific matters mentioned previously, if you consider yourself an opponent of racism and bigotry, it is unfortunate that you support an act birthed from such ignorance, and do not realize that you have been duped by it.

Everyone that has and falls victim to an addictive personality should be helped. No sensible person would deny this. Just as well, no sensible person would support prohibition, which has been proven time and time again to only exacerbate every problem it is meant to remedy.

[Plow]

Relevance will naturally vary simply because you're not me, but I'll toss out a few. First off, I had to part ways with a childhood friend of 18 years as getting baked progressively became more and more important to him. Go out? Nope. Split cash on a new game? Spent on a stash. Conversation quality? Progressively worsened.

Sounds like you wanted to go out and get drunk and this dude would rather get high. You not finding his getting high stories as hilarious as your getting drunk stories is not a big shock.

Second, relative to the stanky ass smell of the stuff, my college days suffered due to my roommates lighting up and the scent agitating my vulnerability to migraines.

That's pretty impressive, considering the stuff you're smelling is chock-full of multitudes of chemicals that stop migraines.

Literal pain aside, late night tokings often led to me having to retreat to a friend's dorm just to get some shitty sleep on a couch. This being an art school, working on projects wasn't always as easy as just closing a book and changing locations to escape the stuff, either.

Also impressive, considering pot is probably the single most effective non-addictive sleep aid there is.

Third involved my sister and a simple request to pick me up from a train station after a trip. She deemed getting blazed the night before far more important, resulting in her being a no-show, me waiting 6 hours being unable to get ahold of her, and eventually having to call my mother to drive cross-state and pick me up. This was pretty much the last time I've ever chosen to ask a favor of her.

How does getting high the night before affect her ability to pick you up? Sounds like your sister didn't give a fuck and you decided to blame it on pot. Maybe it's because you're a self-righteous prick that looks down on people whose drug of choice is different than yours.

Fourth is more a general interaction between co-workers at various jobs and the occasional customer, be it smelling of the stuff, their behavior obviously compromised, and the typically annoying indoctrination tactics despite professing a lack of interest. Why I dislike the smell should be obvious there. Covering their ass because they can't work as well was annoying. Pot may as well be religion to some, both in aspects for and against, and I'm not keen on that, either.

How customers being high is a negative is beyond me. Heaven forbid you have to deal with super chill people that don't give a fuck what a dick you are.

Also, maybe you should work towards getting rid of shitty employees instead of supposedly covering for them being potheads and making directly related mistakes?

Have I been directly involved with violence? No. And I'm glad for that. Yet I still hear of local incidents of drug busts, some not always peaceful. Overall, my concern for increased access involves people who might not have otherwise touched the stuff doing so. And if they like it? Fine. When it starts becoming a focus in their life? That's when I fear it leading to the undesired social effects (mirroring my own or completely original) and possible crimes, petty or major, if their means do not support their desire. I've also otherwise avoided the gateway argument up until now, but in that increased potential user pool, I wouldn't doubt instances of people going, "Well, that wasn't so bad..." and indeed trying harder stuff. Same problems then risk repeating. As is, I'd like for the medical science to improve, or even better, find cures for the conditions its prescribed for. I also feel other drugs, like anti-depressants, are too quickly prescribed. There's lots of other bad shit out there that shouldn't be out there, but the whole, "Just let them burn themselves..." mentality feels utterly inhuman to me given the collective purpose of society being to improve the lives of the individuals within it. If someone hates their life so much that they need to light up at the end of the day to get through it, they need help, not more weed. And I'd say the same for beer, wine, valium, psychadelic mushrooms, or whatever other non-essential substance gets ingested.

So, really, I'm a turrible, turrible person.

Right, because the only reason to ever get high is that you "need to to get through the day." It's not at all like there's people that just enjoy getting high the same way you enjoy drinking a beer or playing a video game.

Let alone people that like to do things like *gasp* combine getting high with playing a video game.

[Plow]

Oh, and btw, people wouldn't go "well that wasn't so bad" and try harder stuff if morons like you weren't trying to convince them pot was the worst thing ever to exist and being blatantly wrong.

[Kurokikaze]

Oh, and btw, people wouldn't go "well that wasn't so bad" and try harder stuff if morons like you weren't trying to convince them pot was the worst thing ever to exist and being blatantly wrong.

And this is the exact same reason that marijuana was just removed from DARE's coursework going forward.

[arus2001]

Nixon stuff.

You're still trying to demonize me for things that happened before I was even born. I dislike the stuff because people did stupid shit while under the influence of equally stupid shit. Legality would not change my perception of that or even behavior, aside from maybe being more cautious in areas of distribution. It only coincidentally favors me in the case of recreational use and my personality tends to prepare for the worst over hoping for the best.

Sounds like you wanted to go out and get drunk and this dude would rather get high. You not finding his getting high stories as hilarious as your getting drunk stories is not a big shock.

Nice try, I don't drink, either. I'm otherwise confident in knowing how my body reacted. There are numerous causes for migraines and unfortunately no singular cure, as the myriad of medications I've been through over the years hoping to find one that works long term would attest. Sadly, the best medicine seems to be low stress.

[quannum]

the true part of the "gateway drug" meme is that since pot is illegal, you have to get it from an illegal drug dealer, who probably deals other unregulated illegal drugs. there is some x% of people who will go further down the rabbit hole just because they have access to do so.

properly regulate it, sell it at 7/11 and those same people will buy a big gulp instead of trying <insert scary drug here> for the first time.

[Plow]

the true part of the "gateway drug" meme is that since pot is illegal, you have to get it from an illegal drug dealer, who probably deals other unregulated illegal drugs. there is some x% of people who will go further down the rabbit hole just because they have access to do so.

properly regulate it, sell it at 7/11 and those same people will buy a big gulp instead of trying <insert scary drug here> for the first time.

That's another reason, at some point if you're going to actual dealers instead of just getting shit from friends, somebody's going to offer you some coke or shrooms or whatever to go with your sack.

Yet another reason is people turning to other shit because they want to get high but can't smoke pot. I have one friend that went hardcore cokehead, and now hardcore heroin addict, because he kept getting on probation for stupidass shit (pretty much entirely alcohol related btw) and couldn't pass a drug test with pot, where the others are easy.

Hell, I got pretty deep into coke just cuz it got really hard to get weed for a while in college. I'm honestly not sure I'd ever have gotten out of that if I hadn't gone to pay back a guy back home I'd owed money for pot for like 2 years, and he still sold but didn't ever try to move heavier shit... and he commented that my girlfriend and I looked like shit and asked if we were ok. That was the point where I had to deal with withdrawal and just go on with my life, and I haven't done shit but smoke pot and very rarely have some drinks for about 10 years since.

[arus2001]

Legalization won't rule out the black market, though, even if funds generated from it go toward better cracking down. As is, you've got the 21+ requirement, and I wouldn't be surprised if they limited the actual amount you could walk off with. So, you've still got age, amount, and price to factor where people may still turn to dealers and other temptations they offer. So, while some growers/dealers may go government, I doubt all of them will.

[Kohan]

You're still trying to demonize me for things that happened before I was even born.

On the contrary; you're demonizing a substance because of the ill reasoning behind its illicit labeling, that being what happened before you were born. You are not exempt from responsibility simply due to the fact that you were born after the 1970s, considering that you, along with the rest of us, inherited the world from our predecessors.

If we choose to be responsible, it is therefore our responsibility to repair those things that were done for poor reasons in the past. Consider the aforementioned racism matter, which you oppose, although slavery, Jim Crow laws, and everything related also happened before you were born. Yet you care about those things, do you not? As such, by your own actions, you have invalidated your argument that whatever happened before your birth is not something that you should take into consideration.

You purport to be progressive on other matters, yet turn a blind eye to the origins of this one. You are being selective in relation to something you would normally not condone. As mentioned previously, you are being duped, and you are evidently very comfortable with being duped.

I dislike the stuff because people did stupid shit while under the influence of equally stupid shit. Legality would not change my perception of that

It should. If you are a humanist—as you claimed to be with a prior statement, regarding individuals letting others burn themselves out—and if you are supportive of modern medical science—as you also claimed to be, given your remark about wishing for its improvement—you would be incredibly hard-pressed to find sufficient and verifiable reason to maintain the illegal classification of marijuana.

If you dislike it due to your personal opinion, willfully disregard the medical advantages, ignore the racist reasoning behind its enactment, and are comfortable living with all of those things, so be it. I would hope, however, that you would not falsely argue in favor of humanism and science in relation to it in the future. You are fueled by personal anecdotes and misinformation, and nothing more.

[Tagus]

I'd love it if they legalized it, but the problem is that most companies aren't going to change their drug testing policies. I don't know if they can legally reprimand/fire people for testing positive for weed once the feds legalize it in 20 years or whenever, but they won't change their policy based on a state law, which sucks. Even if it was perfectly legal, myself and most sensible people still wouldn't risk unemployment over it.

[Kurokikaze]

I'd love it if they legalized it, but the problem is that most companies aren't going to change their drug testing policies. I don't know if they can legally reprimand/fire people for testing positive for weed once the feds legalize it in 20 years or whenever, but they won't change their policy based on a state law, which sucks. Even if it was perfectly legal, myself and most sensible people still wouldn't risk unemployment over it.

It would work like alcohol in regards to your employer. If you are drug tested; having THC in your system is wouldn't/shouldn't be held against you.

[Tagus]

I hope you're right... knowing my company though, if it's still on the federal books they won't change their policy on their own. It would have to be pretty much unconstitutional or discriminatory for them to change... so basically, only if they were forced to. They're pretty much assholes like that.

[Blackice]

It would work like alcohol in regards to your employer. If you are drug tested; having THC in your system is wouldn't/shouldn't be held against you.

This is where more research is also needed. There is still no definitive way to test for impairment on the spot, where as alcohol has the breathalyzer. Once that issue is solved it would be pretty easy to keep a clean work place and still allow your employees to enjoy their off time.

[Plow]

actually since it only stays for a couple hours if you get tested with alcohol in your system at work you're pretty fucked, lol

the work and driving argument is the one legit one, given that it's so hard to test to see how recent you've had it

I don't see any reason we couldn't establish some kind of system where if you want to drive and smoke pot, you have to take a "baseline" sobriety test and be able to stay within x% of it anytime you get pulled over, though. It would cost a bit, but it could also be a tax directly on weed and only weed to counteract that.

Businesses could run a similar system, or simply continue to require you not to smoke period if you're going to be doing work where it can become a danger.

[Kohan]

I'd love it if they legalized it, but the problem is that most companies aren't going to change their drug testing policies.

State law regulates this. Just as a state law may be passed to permit medical marijuana, so may a law be passed that prevents employers from discriminating against employees with a valid prescription. If such a thing happened, the only employers that would be able to discriminate against medical marijuana users would be federal ones.

[Plow]

This is where more research is also needed. There is still no definitive way to test for impairment on the spot, where as alcohol has the breathalyzer. Once that issue is solved it would be pretty easy to keep a clean work place and still allow your employees to enjoy their off time.

Honestly the only jobs that pot testing makes sense at all for are stuff like heavy machinery, shipping, etc., and hell I know people that drove forklifts at Boeing loading airplane bodies that are 40 feet wide and directed by a GPS with 2 inches of margin between successful and "out a hundred grand or more" and were high as fuck all day every day doing that for 30 years.

But, I understand that there's cause for concern there, and I personally don't have any problem with jobs that can be dangerous requiring you to abstain.