Nasa worth it? (thread split)

**Deadgye** · 2013-01-23 04:39

Wonder if it's possible to turn cosmic radiation into electricity, and then use that to power something that creates thrust to propel spaceships. Also wonder if we've looked into creating artificial gravity via centripetal forces to help relieve muscle decay problems for long stays in space.

The answers to these questions and many others, answered in the future by giving Nasa moar budget! Do eeet.

**kuronosan** · 2013-01-23 09:53

Originally Posted by Deadgye

Wonder if it's possible to turn cosmic radiation into electricity, and then use that to power something that creates thrust to propel spaceships. Also wonder if we've looked into creating artificial gravity via centripetal forces to help relieve muscle decay problems for long stays in space.

The answers to these questions and many others, answered in the future by giving Nasa moar budget! Do eeet.

Yes to the second one. It would require a great deal of power to create the necessary acceleration for centripetally-generated gravity. It would also require a large, donut-shaped station.

**Niiro** · 2013-01-23 12:59

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail

**mightyg** · 2013-01-23 14:02

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.co...5319460049.gif

**Pirian** · 2013-01-23 14:42

Originally Posted by Niiro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail

I remember hearing somewhere that the current cost estimates for a solar sail ship are at around 10 trillion, and that it's the lowest cost interstellar model currently

**Acevalefor** · 2013-01-23 15:13

Originally Posted by Pirian

I remember hearing somewhere that the current cost estimates for a solar sail ship are at around 10 trillion, and that it's the lowest cost interstellar model currently

But how do you stop? Every time I see drawings of solar sails in concept, I am reminded of those awesome videos of people trying to fly huge kites in high winds and getting jerked across the ground or flying into the air. All they had to do is let go.

Like This:

**Mizango** · 2013-01-23 15:23

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

But how do you stop? Every time I see drawings of solar sails in concept, I am reminded of those awesome videos of people trying to fly huge kites in high winds and getting jerked across the ground or flying into the air. All they had to do is let go.

Facepalm.

A) There is gravity that trumps the speed any sail could ever hope to reach. If you wanted to stop, get close enough to a body and voila.

B) Why would you need to stop? Space is so vast that you would have decades and centuries to know where you are going. Things are not in such close proximity that "brakes" would even be needed lol. Even the Asteroid belt images are a myth, each Asteroid is sooooo spaced out that the nearest ones are years and years apart at their closest, and move equally to and fro one another at 2 to 3 times the speed of a bullet lol.

Brakes sound cute, but are useless in a vacuum when you are using sail technologies

**Acevalefor** · 2013-01-23 15:42

Originally Posted by Mizango

Facepalm.

A) There is gravity that trumps the speed any sail could ever hope to reach. If you wanted to stop, get close enough to a body and voila.

B) Why would you need to stop? Space is so vast that you would have decades and centuries to know where you are going. Things are not in such close proximity that "brakes" would even be needed lol. Even the Asteroid belt images are a myth, each Asteroid is sooooo spaced out that the nearest ones are years and years apart at their closest, and move equally to and fro one another at 2 to 3 times the speed of a bullet lol.

Brakes sound cute, but are useless in a vacuum when you are using sail technologies

I really need to get better at this...It was just an empty comment because I wanted to share my story about the kites that comes to mind when I see solar sails. That's all. Kind of like my 8 year-old asking me "If a plane hits the brakes while in the air will it just fall out of the sky?". His idea of brakes is limited to what he knows about cars stopping on the road. Just like my knowledge of space travel is limited to what I see on Nova and Science Channel.

**kuronosan** · 2013-01-23 15:46

Brakes wouldn't work too well in space because of the inertial component, right?

....well, at least frictional brakes.

**Waraji** · 2013-01-23 16:52

I would think he means something to counteract the "force" created by the solar "wind" onto the craft. Wouldn't closing the sail and shooting up thrusters in the opposite direction essentially "stop" the craft?

My gripe for this sail technology is that its such a scapegoat at not figuring out better thrust technology. I also don't see how the round trips for these mining operations will operate without huge fuel costs.

**quannum** · 2013-01-23 17:06

Originally Posted by Waraji

I also don't see how the round trips for these mining operations will operate without huge fuel costs.

solar sails

**Pirian** · 2013-01-23 17:25

Originally Posted by quannum

solar sails

While it is renewable, the best idea atm for a successful solar sail ship would have 2 components:
1- The actual ship
2- omgwtfhuge solar panels in space with gathering energy from the sun to shoot a laser at the ship to propel it.

This is all shit that I've just heard here or there, but also, in order to get to 1/4 the speed of light, it would take 32x the energy output of EVERY energy plant in the world currently

**quannum** · 2013-01-23 17:40

shooting lasers whu?

http://science.howstuffworks.com/solarsail4.htm

**Mizango** · 2013-01-23 18:01

Originally Posted by Pirian

While it is renewable, the best idea atm for a successful solar sail ship would have 2 components:
1- The actual ship
2- omgwtfhuge solar panels in space with gathering energy from the sun to shoot a laser at the ship to propel it.

This is all shit that I've just heard here or there, but also, in order to get to 1/4 the speed of light, it would take 32x the energy output of EVERY energy plant in the world currently

Photons from the Sun would actually propel the sail

We know -thanks to both voyager crafts- that the photons from the Sun are still blasting through the heliosheath, heliopause and Term. shock in the far, far, far recesses of our mote of dust we call the solar system.

**Mizango** · 2013-01-23 18:04

Also, the ship is a bit overblown. Can be a Satellite that gathers and relays information back to Earth a la Voyager, as well. Using sail technology in a vacuum isnt anything new or cutting edge, Japan launched a solar sail back in 2009(?) iirc. I remember it was aired lived on the Planetary society's website if you were a member.

We know quite well how it would work, its been tested a few times already.

**Mizango** · 2013-01-23 18:17

Originally Posted by kuronosan

Brakes wouldn't work too well in space because of the inertial component, right?

....well, at least frictional brakes.

There is nothing that would cause "friction" in a vacuum. Inertia does play a small part, but mainly due to there being not enough of a stopping agent. I say that because nothing is completely "empty" because there are small, minute amounts of gases, photons and other particles out there sparsely. Space does a good job at being a vacuum. There is not air resistance in space and you have to apply Newtonian laws to this scenario. Think back to when he concluded that acceleration (not velocity) was directly proportional to the force applied to an object. He also stated that the laws was that once an object is set into motion (whether it be a shuttle, voyager or a solar sail mounted satellite) that the object will travel in a straight line at a particular speed unless acted upon by another force. So aside from it passing through a comet trail, small particles from broken up asteroids as it approaches a Jovian planet with ridiculous gravity (See also: Jupiter) then it will just go and go and go.

Tried to keep it simple, but no, braking just isnt going to happen in a vacuum condition unless something acts upon the craft directly, i.e. gravity. Once our hypothetical sail driven satellite has accelerated to its given speed, and the sail folds and is tucked away, our ship would coasts forever and ever with its trajectory affected only by the force of gravity of the objects it would pass.

**Deadgye** · 2013-01-23 18:27

Originally Posted by kuronosan

Yes to the second one. It would require a great deal of power to create the necessary acceleration for centripetally-generated gravity. It would also require a large, donut-shaped station.

If we could make something like the first true then getting the acceleration needed would be pretty easy. After all in space it's not about how big the acceleration is but rather how much speed you can get out of it w/ no friction.

**quannum** · 2013-01-23 18:34

just stop interacting with the higgs field, ezpz

**Mizango** · 2013-01-23 18:38

You're still traveling for hundreds of thousands of years to get to our nearest galaxy, thousands of years for closest star. Where yall niggas trying to go?

**Mizango** · 2013-01-23 18:38

Originally Posted by quannum

just stop interacting with the higgs field, ezpz

lol

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