Religious schools for the non-religious

[Dantrag]

They teach their children the same sort of blind adherence to revealed rather than empirical knowledge. If you don't see the problem with that, then I don't know what to tell you.

I honestly don't care what they teach their children because again, 99% of them will never...EVER effect my life in any way shape or form. Now the 1% that truly effect my life(say a politician or a politician that is affected by these people and starts legislation that will in some way force me to do something I don't want or changes my life in some way, then that's when I care. Other wise, again, 99% of the time, don't care.

[Alleya]

Actually I think you're right. With such a staggeringly severe lack of imagination, I imagine you won't ever be able to see how it affects you anyway. Go, sir.

[Dantrag]

Actually I think you're right. With such a staggeringly severe lack of imagination, I imagine you won't ever be able to see how it affects you anyway. Go, sir.

Then enlighten me how someone in Alaska or Utah teaching their family whatever it is they chose to teach their children will inherently effect me. The worst thing I can think of at the moment is bad television.

[Siatdiat]

Those polls look like they only polled religious people. What implications does it have on your life what most people with little to no involvement in your daily life have? Yes there are crazies that have power or are trying to gain power(Santroum) where this could possibly have an effect on your life. But for the 99.9999999% of those 47% that believe in strict creationism, who gives a fuck?

I specifically posted a poll done by a respectable polling organization. The methodology used are posted with it, so your guess that they only polled religious people is way off.

It seems like anything I discuss always comes back to education. American education system sucks shit, thats why we have the highest amounts of windowlickers who believe Noah actually chilled with 2 of every species on a boat for 40 days. Americans especially suck at science and math, and its culturally acceptable to suck at math. If you suck at reading, you are retarded, if you suck at doing basic math, its all good. I think improving education in general, and specifically improving science education would make a marked difference. The most fundamental aspect of science education is the scientific method, which creationism or any other kind of bullshit like it has no part in.

[Dantrag]

I specifically posted a poll done by a respectable polling organization. The methodology used are posted with it, so your guess that they only polled religious people is way off.

It seems like anything I discuss always comes back to education. American education system sucks shit, thats why we have the highest amounts of windowlickers who believe Noah actually chilled with 2 of every species on a boat for 40 days. Americans especially suck at science and math, and its culturally acceptable to suck at math. If you suck at reading, you are retarded, if you suck at doing basic math, its all good. I think improving education in general, and specifically improving science education would make a marked difference. The most fundamental aspect of science education is the scientific method, which creationism or any other kind of bullshit like it has no part in.

I never said that the poll wasn't valid. Just based off of the particular questions it seemed as if they were asking only religious people because each answer involved God in some way. While it does state "most Americans believe in God".

I agree that we do not have the best education system. It was my understanding that less and less people, even those that believe in God, have stopped reading the bible as a literal reading. I'm sure there are still plenty(even according to the poll you posted 4/10) of people who believe that the earth was created 10,000 years ago, but as it said that number is slowly dropping. Reading and reading comprehension has and always will be the cornerstone of a good education. I agree with your last two statements. While I think everyone has a right to teach their kids whatever they want, it has no place in a public class room. Creationism does not belong in a science class. Not by any stretch of the imagination. There seems to be a confusion of my general not giving a fuck for not giving a fuck once they start trying to add stuff like creationism into science text books.

[Siatdiat]

I never said that the poll wasn't valid. Just based off of the particular questions it seemed as if they were asking only religious people because each answer involved God in some way. While it does state "most Americans believe in God".

I agree that we do not have the best education system. It was my understanding that less and less people, even those that believe in God, have stopped reading the bible as a literal reading. I'm sure there are still plenty(even according to the poll you posted 4/10) of people who believe that the earth was created 10,000 years ago, but as it said that number is slowly dropping. Reading and reading comprehension has and always will be the cornerstone of a good education. I agree with your last two statements. While I think everyone has a right to teach their kids whatever they want, it has no place in a public class room. Creationism does not belong in a science class. Not by any stretch of the imagination. There seems to be a confusion of my general not giving a fuck for not giving a fuck once they start trying to add stuff like creationism into science text books.

Read up on how often differerent groups try to pressure different school systems to teach creationism in schools. You might find it alarming.

[Dantrag]

Read up on how often differerent groups try to pressure different school systems to teach creationism in schools. You might find it alarming.

Trust me I've heard it on the news/read articles about it. I have actually sent in my letters to those in power in my local area that I do not want this in our area. Again, if someone wants to teach their kid something in their house hold that is fine. But once it gets pushed into the public light and then forced on everyone is where I do not agree with it. Just like in when Texas was pushing for creationism in their science books, that would have impacted a HUGE amount of states due to the way distribution for those books works. Stuff like that I do not agree with.

[Ragnus]

Pretty sure it might start affecting you as they increase in number. Just look at this election. Right now Rick Santorum has gotten farther than any man of his convictions and beliefs should have in an American presidential election. If that isn't just the "Anybody but Romney" effect, then that means the right wing of this country is really ready to start embracing old ass crusader beliefs and will support legislation based on religious values (which affects you also) as it's drafted.

[Alarial]

Then enlighten me how someone in Alaska or Utah teaching their family whatever it is they chose to teach their children will inherently effect me. The worst thing I can think of at the moment is bad television.

Um.. Democracy?

Voting?

Are you trolling or do you not see how other people's views affect the total system in a democratic system?

[Dantrag]

Pretty sure it might start affecting you as they increase in number. Just look at this election. Right now Rick Santorum has gotten farther than any man of his convictions and beliefs should have in an American presidential election. If that isn't just the "Anybody but Romney" effect, then that means the right wing of this country is really ready to start embracing old ass crusader beliefs and will support legislation based on religious values (which affects you also) as it's drafted.

Santorum and Gingrich will get the most right wing voters. The problem is that with the current rhetoric that he is spouting about social issues, they're losing more and more independent voters and have lost 7% of the woman voters due to their stances on things such as birth control. If anything, they seem to be hurting the right more and more than helping it. And then you have what seems to be a split even within the republican party. It is nearly impossible for anyone but Romney to win at this point unless Gingrich drops out, which he doesn't seem willing to do.

Are you trolling or do you not see how other people's views affect the total system in a democratic system?

I am not trolling. I am just saying that everyone has the right to believe what they want one way or another. I will vote for or against things that come up the way I see fit. As will everyone else.

Just so everyone knows. I am against creationism being taught in school. I am against legislation that is written solely, if at all, based on religious values. I personally do not attend any Church and have not really believed in God even since I was little. I do not believe in the creationist theory. I believe that everyone should be tolerant of each others beliefs. I also believe in separation of church and state. But I also believe that everyone has a right to believe whatever they choose.

[Greatguardian]

Pretty sure I love me some edumacation. Both my parents are post-doc professors and my younger sister teaches middle school. I'm fine with religion. I'm not fine with ignorance. The two are not inexorably linked, even though they appear to have a high correlation. Honestly, I blame this on the staggering amount of ignorance present in our society rather than anything else. Damn near everyone is pretty damned ignorant, regardless of their spirituality. It's a mode that's encouraged in both media and everyday culture.

The scientific method is pretty keen, but simply teaching that to students won't solve everything. Like you said earlier in the thread, basic understandings are the most dangerous kinds of understandings. Critical thinking is an extremely important skill. Reading is absolutely fundamental. How many BG posters actually read books regularly? And no, I don't mean "I read this book once and I don't want to look like an idiot so I'll say that I read". I mean, how many books have people read this month? This week? I promise you it's a low number. Reading allows you to expose yourself to new ideas and new perspectives. Those are critical in forming your own mode of thought.

Our educational system needs a huge overhaul. I just don't see what that has to do with spirituality. Stop confusing organized religion with religion. The former incorporates the people who want to desecrate our science classrooms and who already actively determine what textbooks your children get in school. Those organizations are purely political in nature and use such methods in order to increase their "pull". If you think those are true believers at the top of the pyramid, you're really just not jaded enough.

[Yugl]

You guys are so enlightening! I'm going to reject the laws and theories of gravity, quantum mechanics, sphereish-earth theory, the moon's existence as a planet, concepts about biology, neurological constitution, the idea of chemical combinations (Water is H2O?! Bullshit) and other scientific ideas. Why? I didn't thoroughly test all of them and therefore, have no empirical basis for believing them over any idea that limited tests I have done fail to reject. If I did believe them, it would be purely blind adherence. I wouldn't want to do that, after all.

[Greatguardian]

ilu Yugl

[hey]

I mean, how many books have people read this month? This week? I promise you it's a low number. Reading allows you to expose yourself to new ideas and new perspectives. Those are critical in forming your own mode of thought.

I read around 100 books worth of content on the internet per month. Does that count?

[Greatguardian]

Absolutely not. You could read BG for a year and not gain as much as you would by reading just one book by Karel Capek or Yevgeny Zamyatin.

[archibaldcrane]

Absolutely not. You could read BG for a year and not gain as much as you would by reading just one book by Karel Capek or Yevgeny Zamyatin.

Lofl.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

[Kaylia]

The scientific method is pretty keen, but simply teaching that to students won't solve everything. Like you said earlier in the thread, basic understandings are the most dangerous kinds of understandings. Critical thinking is an extremely important skill. Reading is absolutely fundamental. How many BG posters actually read books regularly?

It's what worry me the most when I see people direct their rage toward religion as if its removal would solve anything. There are issues far more fundamental than these superifical beliefs in our society, and those won't go away easily. Opening your TV or facebook is usually more than enough to see why nothing would change even if it dissapeared tomorrow.


The example of creationism has been reused over and over in this thread, but what % of the population doesn't have sciences classes in high school, and how many are driven away because of their beliefs? The answer is probably "not many". In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if these kids aren't attracted to sciences more because of the contrast it makes with their beliefs, assuming they were raised in an environment that encourage studying.

[hey]

Absolutely not. You could read BG for a year and not gain as much as you would by reading just one book by Karel Capek or Yevgeny Zamyatin.

Where can i find a list of approved reading material?

[Greatguardian]

Where can i find a list of approved reading material?

You go to your local library, find a book that looks interesting, and read it. Foreign concept, I know.

[Kaylia]

Where can i find a list of approved reading material?

Are you being obtuse on purpose?