FINAL FANTASY XIV Players’ Poll the Third (03/12/2012)

[Corrderio]

WAR can hold it's own as a tank pretty well (ATM they seem to be better than PLD). Not sure about it's DPS though since I haven't tried to unlock it yet or seen any in action.

[TacoTaru]

I really don't know how well it is for DPS, but I know it's a beast tank. It ranks under DRG and MNK I think though.

[blindSharingan]

I've been tanking my LS's dungeon runs. Started on PLD and pretty quickly switched over to WAR. WAR has higher HP and does more dmg than PLD making holding hate on bosses a breeze. You get 2 increased hate on action abilities (sentinel & antagonize) and rampage is really great for tanking. Overall tanking on WAR has been much easier/effective than PLD.

I haven't parsed anything but just going off of eyeballing my dmg seems pretty good and I'm in more so tank-centric gear. The recast on Steel Cyclone is only 30 seconds which isn't bad for an AoE/stun WS. I wouldn't be surprised to see WAR put up some nice DD #'s in a parse with a more DD focused gear setup.

[Raldo]

It makes me so very sad that my linkshell does everything with a PLD tank instead of WAR. For some people, it's like trying to convince '04 XI people that a ninja can tank. Did a random Aurum run a couple days ago with a WAR tank. It brought a tear to my eye (in a good way).

[Niiro]

PLD is for when you need to manage hate on multiple targets (AoE Flash) or when Hallowed Ground can make or break your effort.

MRD is superior at single-mob tanking by far, they have more HP/VIT/DEF, as good/better damage mitigation abilities (Foresight, Featherfoot, Vengeance, access to Sentinel and Rampart, 2nd wind is nice in a pinch) and can spike hate even better than a PLD (get TP > Antagonize+Sentinel > Voke+Flash > Heavy > Skull > Steel). Then there's the whole MRD actually dealing damage thing.

The sad fact of the matter is unless you need Hallowed Ground you're better off going GLA than PLD. Holy Succor needs some serious adjusting to be worth using, making it an ability or at the very least insta-cast while adding a modest recast timer would be a start. It simply takes too long to cast for not enough benefit and can be interrupted. Needless to also mention that shields are terrible.

Also helps to straight up forget that PLD AF exists. Cobalt/Sentinel set with lots of Bloodthirst will do more for you than it ever could, on PLD my HP in full AF has something like 3200-3300 in a full pt. MRD is above 4k. Stick +enm in your waist/weapon and add a coral armillae+1 for +20-30 and you should be fine. Bonus points for Stonewall Earrings.

[blindSharingan]

PLD is for when you need to manage hate on multiple targets (AoE Flash)

I wouldn't necessarily agree on this. It really depends on the speed at which you need to kill the mobs but antagonize > Steel Cyclone has been really effective for me at turning all mobs in a group to flashing red. Slapping a collusion on one of the BLMs is also really nice. For something that is going to take multiple sleepga's and you don't want to wake stuff up I'd agree but you're pushing your luck with the new resist system if the fight takes too long and those mobs are up long enough to start resisting.

I also haven't really found any situation (so far) where hallowed ground was a necessity to winning.

[Niiro]

I meant when you intend to use Hallowed Ground as part of your strategy, not necessarily necessary (funny sentence) to win but to take advantage of what it can do to give you significant breathing space for whatever.

There are plenty of situations where it can be an emergency life-saver but it comes at the cost of using a sub-par tank the rest of the time.

Also the main issue with MRD and multiple mobs is it can be tricky to get SC off such that everything's in place while you build up TP and execute the 3 step combo; WSs miss, mobs turn unexpectedly, etc. PLD is just more reliable in that respect.

Also, side-note, has there been any testing on the effects of Rampage aside from the drain effect?

[Manako]

I've done ifrit with War tank a few times with few issues. BLM did fine without getting hate and kills were fast. I would occasionally get yellow aggro (as LNC) but then I use emnity - buffs and its not an issue.

[Niiro]

I don't know who you're responding to but Ifrit is a prime example of a place where WAR has every advantage, no one in their right mind would argue in favor of PLD.

[Elcura]

WAR tanking multiple mobs is easy, and just as functional as PLD since flash and steel cyclone have the same cooldown.

And hell, you only need to have hate on 1 mob (which is stupidly easy) to set up a steel cyclone combo which only needs 1 direction (front) for the first step in the combo and the rest is all good no matter where you are. If you can't get a steel cyclone combo off you have bigger problems than trying to tank multiple mobs. Even if you don't have hate getting that combo off is easy anyway, as it only costs 1000 TP and has a 10 second cooldown if you miss.

Hell, the only thing you need to watch out for when using steel cyclone is missing the mob with your attacks.

A harder combo to get done is Path of the Storm > Whirlwind, and even that isn't very hard.

Edit: With antagonize and Sentinel, you build more hate and take less damage than a PLD does. Why would you ever use one instead of a WAR?

[Magi]

Stick +enm in your waist/weapon and add a coral armillae+1 for +20-30 and you should be fine. Bonus points for Stonewall Earrings.

+2-4% more Enmity per action is worth giving up the extra HP from melded waist and raptorskin wristbands (+1)?

[Niiro]

WAR tanking multiple mobs is easy, and just as functional as PLD since flash and steel cyclone have the same cooldown.

And hell, you only need to have hate on 1 mob (which is stupidly easy) to set up a steel cyclone combo which only needs 1 direction (front) for the first step in the combo and the rest is all good no matter where you are. If you can't get a steel cyclone combo off you have bigger problems than trying to tank multiple mobs. Even if you don't have hate getting that combo off is easy anyway, as it only costs 1000 TP and has a 10 second cooldown if you miss.

Hell, the only thing you need to watch out for when using steel cyclone is missing the mob with your attacks.

A harder combo to get done is Path of the Storm > Whirlwind, and even that isn't very hard.

Edit: With antagonize and Sentinel, you build more hate and take less damage than a PLD does. Why would you ever use one instead of a WAR?

The point being mobs don't like to cooperate and sit still for you to AoE them, and without an instant AoE hate ability no one else can do much of anything until you have TP and execute a 3-step combo for risk of mobs making a beeline for them. Smart use of self-target abilities helps but they have longer recasts.

+2-4% more Enmity per action is worth giving up the extra HP from melded waist and raptorskin wristbands (+1)?

I'm not so well versed in +/- enmity mechanics I suppose, is there an up-to-date source for info around?

[Raldo]

The current claim is that each point of enmity is +/- 0.1% enmity. I haven't seen the evidence, but I've seen it spouted multiple times today. It makes sense to me, though I am a little disappointed, since that would mean that enmity- is, as it was in XI, more effective point-for-point than enmity+.

I dearly wish they'd express stat bonuses in percentages when possible, rather than meaningless numbers.

[Elcura]

The point being mobs don't like to cooperate and sit still for you to AoE them, and without an instant AoE hate ability no one else can do much of anything until you have TP and execute a 3-step combo for risk of mobs making a beeline for them. Smart use of self-target abilities helps but they have longer recasts.

This is only really a problem if your party is retarded and can't hold back until you cyclone, at which point they probably deserve everything that comes at them. WAR has enough def and tools that it can last the 12 seconds that Sent is active is to cyclone without taking much damage at all (+Bloodbath for a full cure without assistance depending on damage and number of mobs). And once you establish that hate a WAR can do a lot better than PLD can at keeping all those mobs under control. Also, Steel Cyclone has a crazy large range and can hit stuff you didn't even expect.

Even if your party is retarded and attacks stuff or gets aggro randomly WAR can pull hate a lot easier than PLD and doesn't require a shield block to use that second (or any) AOE ability. The trade off is you wait a little longer for that initial hate, but that time is easily made up by WARs hate holding allowing the party to go all out.

[jwang]

Don't forget that warriors also got Vengeance, which is the old Punishing Barbs on a different class. Reduces the physical damage taken by half while reflecting damage back to the boss, I love to use it whenever I know Ifrit is going to swipe.

[Karinastar]

I'm pretty sure the reps themselves have confirmed that PLD is going to be receiving some adjustments in the near future. Someone in LS was saying 1.21a, possibly, though I couldn't cite where exactly they got that info. WAR is superior in practically every application, and if you don't have a WAR available, as stated even GLD is better than PLD for the most part.

They seemed to want PLD to be a more efficient tank, but they just didn't give it the tools to do so. I remember Yoshi specifically mentioning a DEF bonus in exchange for the lower HP, which PLD doesn't have. An ability that gradually consumes MP to give a straight % off of damage taken (like the MNK Fists) would do a lot to increase PLD's utility and make them a "safer" alternative to WAR's superior enmity and damage, and would allow a PLD tank setup to require fewer healers as well. As it stands now, even well geared PLDs are in danger of being 1-shotted by Coincounter, and their low HP doesn't allow a lot of wiggle room on Chimera either. I assume they hold up better on older content, but I can't imagine WAR not being better in any of those fights either with the possible exception of moogle kiting. I'm just not sure what SE was thinking, they really gave PLD nothing besides Hallowed Ground over what GLD can cross class, when they made all of the other jobs really stand out at their roles. :/

[TacoTaru]

Here be the sauce:

To all the players who don the gear of the Gallant or just like to look at those who do, I have good news!

In patch 1.21a we will be making adjustments to paladins, mainly focusing on their actions and we will continue to adjust paladin and other jobs moving forward.

On the JP side they also made a similar statement on a WAR forum/forum post which leads me to believe they'll be "adjusting" WAR as well with PLD.

[Raldo]

Adjusting how, I wonder? I can't say I'm familiar with any WAR complaints, and all I can think of for PLD is the HP complaints.

[Dein]

PLD really needs more than just a HP boost to be a competitive tank, fixing shield block rates and upping their defensive skills would be a start. I'm still concerned that people will want WAR over PLD, even with such buffs, due to the damage gap between the two of them. Rather than see WAR get nerfed though I hope they bring PLD up in that regard so both jobs can tank and contribute decent damage.

[TacoTaru]

Adjusting how, I wonder? I can't say I'm familiar with any WAR complaints, and all I can think of for PLD is the HP complaints.

I don't want to chicken little, but my guess is hitting it with a nerf bat for balance for reasons. Dein pretty much covered what I was going to say about why I assume it's going to be one if they decide to adjust WAR.