Debt Collection from Williams and Fudge

[Meresgi]

Long Story:

Spoiler: show

So i've had a few calls from Williams and Fudge, a notorious debt collection agency, in the past few months regarding a $1700 owed from the Art Institute Online. Now currently i'm trying to get ahold of my senator and congressmen over this as a lot of the numbers of what Art Institute has given me via their billing have seemed very "fraudulent". They claim on some papers to have only charged me $13k for the 2 semesters I was there, yet on other papers I see total charges up to $30k. When I asked them about this they said the $30k was going to be for the entire degree...yet when I go down the line and add up all the payments made/charges made it totals $30k...just for what I had done at the college.

Anyways this debt collection agency is calling a lot lately but I have never answered the phone and told them I was who they were looking for, I acted as if I was just a roommate to see what exactly they wanted. The women began to verbally harass me over the phone as to my location and all other sorts of information I didn't give her.

Now today they finally sent me a letter in the mail stating they had taken my debt from Art Institute and were attempting to collect on it. Back in September I had actually made a payment on this bill before it was transferred to Williams and Fudge to show the Art Institute I wanted to do a payment plan. They refused my payment plan yet cashed the check and credited towards my bill.

Short story: Williams and Fudge harassing me over a debt from Art Institute. Still talking to senators/congressmen about how they might have committed fraud with my Pell Grants. Got a letter today about me owing them and that I need to make a fully payment of $1700 or they will "take action".


So what to do? I have no assets at all so the thought of bankruptcy crossed my mind but I would need to hire a lawyer for this as doing it by myself would be a huge mistake. I also thought about just ignoring it and seeing what happens if they do actually try to file a suit against me or just let it go by the side as it's less then 2 grand and i'm sure the court fees would cost them more in the long run then the debt itself.

Anyone had similar circumstances or practice law?

[Sonomaa]

you never EVER have to speak with a debt collection company, contact the school directly and tell them you need to speak with a representative about your bill but you will not speak with a debt collector.
you have rights, and while the debt collectors will tell you otherwise, your rights are to not speak with them directly at all

[Meresgi]

Yeah that's what I figured. I never talk to them like I said, I play it off as if I don't live here or that i'm a transient and they are just talking to another person who happens to live at this location. I've contacted the school but they told me they had shipped the debt off to collections and refused to speak of it anymore or set up a payment plan that didn't involve a single payment of the full amount or 2 payments of 1/2. Both of which I can't afford on my current income.

[Cleverness]

If there's 17k difference between what you were supposed to pay and what you actually paid, that's alot of money. Just seriously get a lawyer, possibly 1 who can work pro bono if you're lucky, and serve them papers to get back the difference. You shouldn't be paying a dime if they are legit overcharging you for tuition.

Do confirm though with your financial sources that supplied the money for the tuition that all 30k was cashed, and not partially refunded if you haven't(this is like the 3rd topic you've posted on the subject so I honestly dont remember if it was brought up)

[Xantavia]

I was similar in that a collection agency came after me for a credit card bill, but I was unable to make the kind of payment plan they wanted. (like lump sum of 8k, 2 payments of 4.5k, or 4 payments of 2.5k). They took me to court and ended up garnishing my wages, which didn't affect me due to having a shitty income so I didn't make enough to be garnished.

The problem came a few years later when they didn't believe I was only pulling in like $800/month. They were able to have my bank account frozen, until the bank told them all about my "hidden" income I don't have. Went to court to see what was going on, and the bank let them know that "yup, he gets $800/month. He has no other savings/checking accounts anywhere or any safe deposit boxes". They took half of what was in my account in order to unfreeze it, and that was calling them every day and faxing them the court order on 3 separate occasions saying my account had to be unfrozen.

So my only advice is to be aware that depending on exactly what kind of company it is, you might lose access to any bank account for a period of time. Which is wonderful when it causes checks to bounce and suddenly you're paying fees to cash a check and buy money orders to pay any other debts.

[Meresgi]

I have to go back and check for concrete numbers, but I did look at how much money was handed out via Pell Grants/Stafford loans to the college from a .gov website (forgot the site) which lets you view all that information. And there was a good 5-9k discrepancy or higher there. When asked about it, the Art Institute person said "oh, that information just hasn't updated yet", which struck me as odd since it had been almost 8months since the last payment has been sent out, I told them this and they immediately went into defense mode and ended up cutting the call short with "we'll look into this for you".

I'm trying to get a lawyer, but I live in MD right now and according to the lawyers I spoke with down here, I need someone licensed in PA since the Art Institute I went to is technically located there.

I was still hoping to get into contact with my politicians but none return any calls or even look at the paperwork I send their way. In May i'm driving up to NY again so i'm going to take papers with me and go right into my district office and deliver them in person.

@ the bank freezing thing. Hmm sounds like I need to take a good chunk of my cash out of the bank then. (Not that it's much really)

[Ksandra]

To bounce off of what sono said; make sure to talk to someone at the school. Don't have them fuck up your credit over something you don't owe. That's exactly what will happen if you keep ignoring it. Also, not completely sure over the rules are behind bankruptcy, but 1700 seems like an awfully small number for that. Definitely us that as a last option as that will fuck up your life for a long time.

Oh and I'd say actually go talk to someone face to face if possible and try getting anything and everything in writing if possible. My parents paid my sister's student loan, but didn't know they had to fill out a form when they were finished. Then the company claimed they still owed 5k even though my parents knew that was wrong and had payments to show they didn't, but even their lawyer couldn't get them out of having to pay since they never did that form.

Edit. Btw my phone is being retarded. It did some stupid auto correct, and won't let me change things. So if some stuff I said seems weird that's why lol.

edit: at home so fix'd

[Aylee]

if its a student loan then bankruptcy wont help you. Student loans are never forgiven. If its not forgive me im to lazy to read the long story XD

[Meresgi]

I'm not sure if it's classified as a student loan or not.

I guess I should have been clear on where it came from:

I canceled going to the Art Institute in March of last year, they told me at the time of my withdrawing everything would be fine and paid for and I had no worries, though I made the mistake of not getting this in writing. Come July they suddenly told me I owed them $1700 because they had to send back my loan to the government and now were charging me directly for the payment and if I didnt pay it off in 60 days it would be sent to collections. I found out I could appeal this decision, which I did, it took 50 days in the appeal process and when it came out they told me "We decided no, also you now have only 10 days to pay us back or its sent to collections and we only have 2 payment plans, full or 1/2 twice" I tried to reason with them about a better payment plan, citing that I had no work, no unemployment and was skirting by on Pell grant overage from my current college while I did occasional side jobs so the most I could afford was $10-20 a month. I sent them a check for $15 which they cashed, and then they sent it to collections anyways.

I dont think its classified as a student loan though and is instead just a debt to the college for classes/expenses they are citing I owe.

[Brill Weave]

FYI Online schools have a habit of ripping people off. Look at Southern University and the University of Phoenix. These people take whatever isn't nailed down if they can.

[Guyverarmor]

Brill is correct. I am 2 semesters done with DeVry and I have hit my Limit for student loans of 57,500 ( that included ITT tech though as well ) and had to pull out a private loan to finish... good thing I have all the money got for reimbursement stashed in my savings to use to start paying on >.>

[Azull]

Do you have enough info to dispute the charges or is it your word vs the schools?

[guartz]

fyi, bankruptcy doesn't work for student loans in most states.

[archibaldcrane]

fyi, bankruptcy doesn't work for student loans in most states.

You need to obtain a bunch of credit lines first, cash advance all of them, then pay down as much student loan debt as you can with that cash and then declare bankruptcy on your credit lines.

Fucks up your credit for 7 years but in some situations it's worth it. Friend of mine from grad school did that right after he graduated.

[Kerberoz]

[Meresgi]

You need to obtain a bunch of credit lines first, cash advance all of them, then pay down as much student loan debt as you can with that cash and then declare bankruptcy on your credit lines.

Fucks up your credit for 7 years but in some situations it's worth it. Friend of mine from grad school did that right after he graduated.

Hmm I had not thought of that, but it's a good plan.

Also @ the proof thing. I have a bunch of documents for financial information and such I compare to other documents they sent me and the numbers don't add up. In one they are saying they charged me for 13k, another 32k and another 20k, when checking how much my loans were sent to the college along with Pell grants they totaled up to around 4-5k MORE then the lowest ball park figure (they one they are going with). If it's any of the 2 higher ones, then I can turn around and show they were overcharging me for class hours as the math there doesn't add up.

I'm terrible at accounting, but i'm not a complete retard and something just doesn't add up. I'm going to ask my sister in law to look it all over at this weekend possibly if she comes down since she does accounting for the CIA.

[Avanarius]

You need to obtain a bunch of credit lines first, cash advance all of them, then pay down as much student loan debt as you can with that cash and then declare bankruptcy on your credit lines.

Fucks up your credit for 7 years but in some situations it's worth it. Friend of mine from grad school did that right after he graduated.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...pt-country.jpg

Spoiler: show

jk live in canada / don't care

[psychodwarf]

The FDCPA is your friend when it comes to collections. If you feel the agency has done somethign wrong file a complaint with the atty general and send them a cease and desist letter. Beats avoiding calls.

[Toxictaru]

... so the most I could afford was $10-20 a month. I sent them a check for $15 which they cashed, and then they sent it to collections anyways.

I don't want to sound mean at all, because I know your pain unfortunately. That being said, having been on both ends of collections (both being in collections and having worked collections for a year and a half), your offer was laughable at best. A bit of an example where I worked: if you were able to pay every two weeks (or twice a month, whatever), we'd accept offers typically only as low as 10% each pay day. If you were getting monthly, we'd typically only go as low as 20-25% a month.

I get that you're saying you want to commit to a payment plan, but the company is looking at it like this: $15 dollar payments once a month is 113 months to pay back, which is right around 9.5 years. That isn't good business for them.

HOWEVER. You are legally entitled to a few things. If you believe you are being harassed, call a lawyer. Cases can and have been tossed for that crap. Second, you can request collection agencies to only contact you by mail. Third, figure out what you really owe.

Finally, I'm really curious how you can only afford $10-20 a month, most collectors will never buy that as a story. Allow me to tell you a story that kind of explains the mindset of a collector. The company I worked for had a 3 stage collections process, first was local, second was head office collections, third was legal (which we just grouped together, it was either the company selling the debt to a third party or taking the debtor to court). I had a customer who was unable to pay because her husband robbed a bank. She went from having 2 sources of income to a single. She lived in a neighborhood that was best described as upper middle class. Two kids, bills, blah blah. Her husband was the primary source of income, she worked in a job that didn't pay amazing (about $1500-1600 a month, and once a month). I had read the news story, so I was expecting a call from her about it. I did what I could to resolve it from my end, accepting with authorization from upper management, a $50 a month payment plan (which would have taken her about 3 years to pay off when interest was considered). Our head office collections wasn't going to have that (remember the 20-25% thing I mentioned earlier), and literally called her every day, sometimes up to 10-15 times. The sad part is: totally legal. I fought for 2 months to get them to back down, and escalated up through a lot of people, eventually going as far as the lower end of the executive level trying to get this resolved; the answer was always the same: too bad.

Consider that for a second, husband robs bank, in jail for who knows how long, CONFIRMED it, and they won't accept it. Do you really think they believe that you can only afford 10-20 a month? Even if you can, they don't care. Just know your rights. I've absolutely confounded and pissed off collectors when I start telling them I know the laws they have to operate under better than they do. I had one guy literally both respond and cut me off with "LALALALALALALA I DON'T CARE" just by knowing my rights.

[Shenrien]

I had a hospital try and claim that I owed them money back when I had an injury where I worked 4 years back, I kept getting things in the mail saying "Pay us now or there will be problems!" Insurance had covered it all when I had it taken place, and just kept burning the things.

Oddly enough they only started showing up 1 years after the I had gone to the hospital for the problem, they only showed up for about a year straight then stopped coming up, looked on credit records and everything and there was no negative impact, I didn't feel the need to pay because I had been told by the insurance company that they were going to take care of the full charges.

It was only like 500$ but yeah, I already said that insurance said they'd eat the fee, >_> however they only took off 200$ off the medication that I was prescribed that probably fucked me up more than helped lol.