Debt Collection from Williams and Fudge

[Brill Weave]

Don't feed the trolls kids.

[solanis]

is your credit score beyond repair now? do numbers this small wreak havoc on a credit score at all?

[Kerberoz]

It's not trolling when they actually believe the stupid shit they write.

[Brill Weave]

That is actually a very valid point Kerb. A sad, he needs to get out in the real world point. But a point nonetheless.

[Meresgi]

is your credit score beyond repair now? do numbers this small wreak havoc on a credit score at all?

Not sure I need to send in for a credit score that actually shows my score, I only have 2 inquiries on my credit report, 1 by Williams and Fudge and one by a credit card company when I was trying to take out a new card. I have however paid off a 3,000 balance on my credit card recently so hopefully that shows some positive light.

[Zilong]

use credit karma, it's free and it's probably close to if not exactly the actual score without having to go for inquiry that would actually lower your score

[kuronosan]

Whatever you do don't let debt collectors tell you they can charge you interest on a bought debt.

They're not legally allowed to charge you interest on money you did not borrow from them, and it's common practice for these assholes to trick people into paying them more than five times the amount they purchased the account for so that they can make a fat profit.

[Acturus]

Whatever you do don't let debt collectors tell you they can charge you interest on a bought debt.

They're not legally allowed to charge you interest on money you did not borrow from them, and it's common practice for these assholes to trick people into paying them more than five times the amount they purchased the account for so that they can make a fat profit.

I've never heard of this, and I couldn't find an easy link to refer to using Google. Do you have a link to something online you can reference?

[Drex]

Not sure I need to send in for a credit score that actually shows my score, I only have 2 inquiries on my credit report, 1 by Williams and Fudge and one by a credit card company when I was trying to take out a new card. I have however paid off a 3,000 balance on my credit card recently so hopefully that shows some positive light.

Ordering your own credit report won't ding your credit anyway. It does, however, get expensive if you do it frequently.

You should certainly not just ignore the problem. You can always go over your credit report and challenge fucking everything hoping some of the bad gets wiped out, but if it's true you owe them then they can contact the credit companies and fuck you pretty bad.

Also, paying off debt in one payment can actually be bad for your score. It usually comes down to your credit score vs. your money: every decision is good for one and bad for the other. Paying off a debt in a lump sum is good for your money in the long-haul since you stop getting charged interest, but it will ding your credit because future lenders will believe you're likely to do it again, meaning they can't collect interest on you. It's a balancing act, and you need to decide which one is more important to you in the short and long run.

If you want out of this situation, the first thing you should do is challenge the collection agency to provide evidence of the debt. Then challenge the credit bureaus that have posted the debt on your report. The bureau has 30 days to verify the debt. If they say they verified it, but the credit agency does not verify it, then challenge the credit bureau's proof, saying you contacted the agency but they did not provide evidence. Do all of this by certified mail requesting receipts for whenever they receive it, and keep records of everything (the letters you send, the receipts, and responses). If they do have evidence of the debt, there isn't much you can do but repay them.

After a year or two, you can challenge the entry on your report again. Most collection agencies won't bother fighting it if it was paid off a year or two ago, so you can probably get the bad wiped out. Of course, doing this may be somewhat unethical, but it's up to you if you want to pursue that option.

[Meresgi]

Bumping this so I don't have to make a separate thread. Just got a letter from Williams & Fudge stating that I "had broken my promise to pay the loan in a settlement of $1,000.00 and that if payment was not made in 5 days, they reserve the right to refuse future partial payments and demand full payment".

I had email correspondence with the one representative where we were going back and forth trying to reach a settlement, she finally told me $1,000.00 was the lowest they would go. I told her I would need proof of their ownership of the debt of mine but never made any agreement on the $1,000.00. I just sent her another email just now asking her exactly what was going on and asking for proof that W&F had purchased my debt from Art Institute.

The proof she sent me of the debt was just a copy of the billing from Art Institute showing an overage at the end, nothing showing that W&F were actually owners of the debt or anything of that nature, so i'm not sure if that classifies as proof or not.

[Laugana]

Oh I have a story. I work in the printing industry and a finishing company who did work for us went bump. We owed them £3000 (for one job). The company's customer invoices were sold by someone to a third party who sent us an invoice for the amount due. We queried this as we were happy to pay the liquidators directly and felt this was fairer than paying someone we didn't know. Anyway it turns out that other people were complaining about this third party company, who they were, how they bought the debt etc. The liquidators told us that we were in a grey area as it all depended on when exactly the third party bought the debts. Long story short, the liquidators said don't pay anyone and that was the last we heard. So we got a £3000 job for free...

[Snprphnx]

you never EVER have to speak with a debt collection company, contact the school directly and tell them you need to speak with a representative about your bill but you will not speak with a debt collector.
you have rights, and while the debt collectors will tell you otherwise, your rights are to not speak with them directly at all

exactly this. the reason why debt collectors attempt to force you into dealing with them is so they make a profit. if you directly with the original lender, then they are out the increased fees they tack on.

[Correction]

The proof she sent me of the debt was just a copy of the billing from Art Institute showing an overage at the end, nothing showing that W&F were actually owners of the debt or anything of that nature, so i'm not sure if that classifies as proof or not.

This isn't sufficient proof that they now own the debt and will get laughed out of court. They have to provide evidence they are now the legal owners of the debt and that you are the person who owes it. Right now all they have is a piece of paper that says you at one point owed Art Institute money.

Read here, then here, especially if the debt is really old.

[Meresgi]

This isn't sufficient proof that they now own the debt and will get laughed out of court. They have to provide evidence they are now the legal owners of the debt and that you are the person who owes it. Right now all they have is a piece of paper that says you at one point owed Art Institute money.

Read here, then here, especially if the debt is really old.

Awesome, I sent her a follow up email after I had asked what the letter was all about with parts of that sample letter demanding actual proof of the debt. Is there an amount of time they have to get back to me? Is an email sufficient in this day and age for a "paper trail" when it comes to court? I know email has changed a lot in the legal landscape.

[Toxictaru]

Is an email sufficient in this day and age for a "paper trail" when it comes to court? I know email has changed a lot in the legal landscape.

Good luck with that.

Look, what they have provided you isn't exactly sufficient, but again, its e-mail communique. Its the wrong medium to request this, and to be honest, credit is kind of fucking important. I said this to you once a couple of months ago to stop playing with e-mail and do it with registered mail. Also, do you think that any collection agency is dumb enough to NOT collect enough information? I can pretty much guarantee, with 99% certainty, that they have very sufficient proof that they purchased the debt. You go ahead and take it to court with your record of the following:

1) Refusal to commit to more than $10-15 dollars a month
2) Repeated attempts at settling and then not making good on the promise
3) e-mails.

We'll see who wins that one.

Woe is me is not the right answer. Getting up and doing something is. I'm not sure if I mentioned this back in March, but I go to school full time and work full time (in a management position no less). If you smarten up, you can work it out. A debt collector WILL work with you on clearing up the debt IF you make the effort to actually do something about clearing up the debt.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret when it comes to collections. Agencies don't like having money taken away from them. So when you call them and they say "this call may be recorded for customer service or training purposes," means that they are actually recording it. You implicitly agree to being recorded by staying on the line. They record that stuff because it means that if there is any dispute about the communication, it is readily accessible. The point is, if you actually call them instead of being an idiot and using e-mail, and you can catch them in something, then MAYBE you'll luck out. But realistically, anything said in e-mail is very likely not going to be binding in any way, so get on the phone and have your voice recorded instead. If they agree to a settlement over the phone, its probably recorded, both in a voice recording and on your file. If you commit to your side of the terms, and make good on what you said you'd make good on, then you're covered, legally. Also, ask for it in writing. You need to stop dealing with e-mail.

Also, if it goes to court, make sure you show up. If you don't, default judgment to the plaintiff and then the law is against you. You don't need that. Get off the computer, get a real job, stop playing this whole "my family is poor so I must be poor too," stop complaining about working seasonal jobs, and do what needs to be done to survive. I can't understand how you have a computer and access to the internet and can't afford more than what you've offered.

[Correction]

Also, do you think that any collection agency is dumb enough to NOT collect enough information? I can pretty much guarantee, with 99% certainty, that they have very sufficient proof that they purchased the debt.

Bullshit. If they can't produce proof they legally own the debt then they don't have it and you don't have to pay them shit. You have the right to demand the proof before paying a dime.

[bluefan]

Bullshit. If they can't produce proof they legally own the debt then they don't have it and you don't have to pay them shit. You have the right to demand the proof before paying a dime.

I agree.

I dealt with a collection agency in Canada a long time ago....I think it's been 6 years now?

Anyways, mom gets a cell phone from Rogers. Uses it for a couple years before my brother drops it into the snow. Decides she wants to cancel it. Pays the cancellation fee but forgot to pay off the remainder of the balance for a couple months. She pays that too. A few more months later and final reminders for payment etc start coming from Rogers. We call them up, wanting to clarify what the fuck the $670 bill was about but they kept giving us the run around.

We decide to ignore them cause they don't want to work it out with us. Fast forward a few more months and a collection agency starts calling. After the first couple weeks, I finally grab the phone outta my moms hand and calmly ask who they are, their address, their phone number, the agent I was speaking to. Then we started talking it out and I finally said if we owe them, we owe them. Just send us the papers proving we owe the amount. Which includes the billing record from Rogers, the payment records from Rogers, the cell phone usage from Rogers etc...

They haven't called since. And nothing ever came in the mail.

[MaachaQ]

I have another debt collection story, may have mentioned it somewhere on BG in the past but it seems relevant now.

I had insurance from my employer back when I was pregnant with my first child, but I was not yet eligible to put any dependents onto my policy. At the hospital, my doctor helped me sign up my daughter for "Healthy Kids," basically Medicaid for children in Michigan not covered by other insurance. The bills for the birth were supposed to be covered by Healthy Kids (for the child) and by my insurance (for me), but much to our surprise we got a bill in the mail for $4,000 in our daughter's name. We contacted the billing office and sent them a copy of the insurance card we were given and thought that was the end of it. Nope. We keep getting bills, and then we start getting bills from a collections agency. My husband and I were in th process of filing for his immigration status change (green card), and we were going to see a lawyer anyway (he was technically illegal at the time and we wanted to make sure to dot our I's and cross our Ts), so we asked the lawyers to help us out with the hospital billing thing as well. It turns out (which we hadn't noticed for a long time) that the hospital had mis-spelled our daughter's name on the bill, which is why the Medicaid payment hadn't been made. We received a notice that the billing company was going to take us to court on behalf of the hospital, but after getting a package from our lawyers we never heard about the debt again. We even went to the same hospital 2 years later for the birth of our 2nd child, this time my work insurance was able to cover both of us and no further problems were had.

My advice? Lawyer up. It's not just about the money at this point, the hit on your credit will haunt you for years to come if you don't do something about it now. Bring the lawyer all the documents you have regarding the debt, including printing out any and all e-mail correspondence. Sure you'll have to pay for a few hours of his work, but it should save you a ton of money and credit issues down the road.

[Meresgi]

Just got an email back from the rep telling me that the bill from Art Institute is proof of Williams and Fudges ownership of my debt. I sent her one back stating I needed actual proof they owned the debt and that she didn't address my concern about the letter saying I had "broken my promise" to them, a promise I never made. I'm sending out a copy certified tomorrow if I can get to the post office with all this goddamn poison ivy all over me.

I might find a lawyer just to negotiate with them for a better settlement.

@Toxictaru;

I had a job but work has fallen through recently (it was doing construction and electrical) due to the economy taking a shit and no one wants to spend money. It's one of the reasons why I went back to get this degree i'm working on which is taking a lot of my time, though now I am finally done for the semester but will be taking some summer courses. I'm looking into doing an internship through the college though to try to get a leg up in the industry but shit is tough for a lot of people.

Its cool that you can do a manager job and school at the same time, but that opportunity doesn't exist for a lot of people right now. Jobs are hard to find still in a lot of areas and the economy isn't booming like people think it is (we're still in a recession). I credit you for all the hard work though, honestly I don't think I could do a full time job and school, i've only ever done part time + college so kudos.

As for how I have internet, i'm stuck living with my fiance's parents while we finish up college, we pay what we can out of pocket and I do all the yard work and cleaning around the house so as not to be a burden while still feeling like shit for being stuck here. What little I have put away is not much and it's going towards a very meager wedding with only a few friends and family (and her parents are helping pay for most of that).

I'm totally fine settling around $700 with them, i'm just a very proud and stubborn person and I was wronged by this college for upwards of $20k and then lied to about this extra $1700 when I left the college and roped along and played, which is why i'm bent out of shape over the whole thing and get very pissed with this whole collection shit.

[Snprphnx]

if you go to court over it, there is a strong chance they won't appear. it sounds like they can''t provide proof of ownership. if they dont show, then summary judgement goes to you, and you owe nothing.

a co-worker of mine has gone through this. he had a landscaping company, and took out over 80k in loans for all new equipment and tools. then he hit rough times with the economy, and he filed for bankruptcy and told the companies he would see them in court and would turn over all purchased items to begin his repayments. when he went to court to settle everything, out of the 5-6 companies he took out lines of credit with, only one showed up, Sears, for around $800. he paid that immediately, and the judge ruled in his favor for all the other debts, saying he didn't have to repay or turn over any of the equipment.

don't take Debt Collectors laying down. they will scam you any way possible, because most people are scared of fucking up their credit or don't know the laws