Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[kuronosan]

Have fun trying to change gun laws.

YEA BECAUSE APATHY CHANGES ERR'THANG!

Shit doesn't change because people think it won't change and thus aren't motivated to change.

It's unreasonable to keep an eye on someone while calling the cops?

When you were nowhere near him and had to get out of your car, follow where he went, actively looked for him, and went returning to your car without actually knowing where he went?

You think that's reasonable?

[Enkidu]

Did you read anything I said? He's a product of his upbringing. I don't think anywhere in my statement did I say that absolves him or "gives him a pass". Your argument is predicated on Martin being "reasonable".

And no, following a stranger because you suspect they are guilty of some crime is not reasonable either. I said Martin's behavior was understandable. I didn't say it was justified. Zimmerman's behavior, however, was neither understandable nor justified.

Uhh no that's not really fair. Your argument is predicated on Zimmerman being reasonable as well. Perhaps Zimmerman was brought up to act in such ways? his actions are actually just as "understandable" as Martin's when you consider he wanted to be a police officer.

The point is just that Zimmerman's actions were irrational, but well within his legal rights. Martin's actions were irrational and not within his legal rights. Whether or not his "upbringing" was a factor in his decisions is really quite insignificant.

[archibaldcrane]

...really?

It's unreasonable to keep an eye on someone while calling the cops?

It's unreasonable to call the cops on a kid because he's wearing a hooded sweatshirt and is black. If you're going to stalk someone, you'd better be correct about why you're stalking them.

[archibaldcrane]

Martin's actions were irrational

lol, it's now irrational to fight a racist who is following you just because you're black

[shaddix]

Did you read anything I said? He's a product of his upbringing. I don't think anywhere in my statement did I say that absolves him or "gives him a pass". Your argument is predicated on Martin being "reasonable".

And no, following a stranger because you suspect they are guilty of some crime is not reasonable either. I said Martin's behavior was understandable. I didn't say it was justified. Zimmerman's behavior, however, was neither understandable nor justified.

Sorry, I read too much into your post.
"You have to understand his personality and what it means in terms of how he will react to a given situation. I'm certain Zimmerman felt he was in danger. The problem is that he created that danger. He created this situation that he could have otherwise just left alone instead of playing a hero. He went chasing down a Pitbull after calling animal control and then got scared when it started biting him. It's as simple as that."
^ That part sounds like you are saying TM isn't responsible for hitting Zimmerman, that it's actually GZ's fault he got attacked. But I see you're just saying it was a poor decision on GZ's part to follow someone he thought was a criminal. Kind of like it's a poor decision for women to walk around at night in revealing clothing.

I disagree that Zimmerman's behavior isn't understandable. I wouldn't follow someone who I thought looked suspicious on foot like that. But I would definitely do that(follow) before I would punch someone in the face for following me. The idea that "Zimmerman started it" by getting out of his truck, cannot be true if you also say that TM attacked GZ first. If anyone gets charged with manslaughter it should be TM getting charged with manslaughter of himself.

[Denchi]

stalk 2 (stôk)
v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks
v.intr.
1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.
v.tr.
1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.

If you think Zimmerman was stalking, feel free to keep using the word. Otherwise there are other words that seems more appropriate (to me at least).

[Deader2818]

I like how quick people rage in this thread,lol.

[Niiro]

lol, it's now irrational to fight a racist who is following you just because you're black

lol indeed

[archibaldcrane]

Are people in here arguing that Trayvon attacked Zimmy for a reason other than because he didn't like being followed for no reason?

[kuronosan]

Uhh no that's not really fair. Your argument is predicated on Zimmerman being reasonable as well. Perhaps Zimmerman was brought up to act in such ways? his actions are actually just as "understandable" as Martin's when you consider he wanted to be a police officer.

The point is just that Zimmerman's actions were irrational, but well within his legal rights. Martin's actions were irrational and not within his legal rights. Whether or not his "upbringing" was a factor in his decisions is really quite insignificant.

Uh, Zimmerman failed at Criminal Justice, couldn't get into the Academy, and had a long record of angry outbursts and seemingly racist actions. He was also disgruntled at "the system" for "not working the way it should". So uh, I guess you could say his actions were "understandable" if you understand that he took the law into his own hands and pursued someone when he could have simply stayed in his truck and waited for the cops to arrive. He is the very definition of vigilante.

Now in terms of him as a person, I'm pretty sure he's a good person who had good intentions. He took it too far.

As far as Trayvon goes, you're an idiot if you think that Martin's actions were irrational and that his upbringing was insignificant.

Are you black, gay, transgender, solanis, brown, Asian, or a combination of more than one of the above and have been persecuted for being as such when you did nothing wrong? For a lifetime? Then taught your children to beware of people who will persecute you because of it?

I'll wait for your answer before I assume you're just ignorant to a widespread problem in America.

[Deader2818]

What racist actions has Zimmerman showed in his past?

Generally asking because I hadn't actually heard/read any.

[kuronosan]

What racist actions has Zimmerman showed in his past?

Evidently you don't know what the word "seemingly" means.

I thought you were a dictionary fan.

seem·ing·ly
/ˈsēmiNGlē/
Adverb
So as to give the impression of having a certain quality; apparently: "a seemingly competent and well-organized person".
According to the facts as one knows them; as far as one knows.

[archibaldcrane]

What racist actions has Zimmerman showed in his past?

Do you really think race wasn't a factor in Zimmy following Trayvon?

[Denchi]

Do you really think race wasn't a factor in Zimmy following Trayvon?

This is where I get confused.

There were reports of black males robbing the neighborhood for months. Identifying him as black seems like an observation, not racial profiling.

"Zimmerman's black neighbor was quoted as saying "Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK? There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood. That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.""

[Deader2818]

Evidently you don't know what the word "seemingly" means.

I thought you were a dictionary fan.

seem·ing·ly
/ˈsēmiNGlē/
Adverb
So as to give the impression of having a certain quality; apparently: "a seemingly competent and well-organized person".
According to the facts as one knows them; as far as one knows.

Why would you think im a dictionary fan? lol

So no real proof that he has shown racist intention?

And Kuro, there really isn't a need to come off as hostile.

[shaddix]

Evidently you don't know what the word "seemingly" means.

I thought you were a dictionary fan.

seem·ing·ly
/ˈsēmiNGlē/
Adverb
So as to give the impression of having a certain quality; apparently: "a seemingly competent and well-organized person".
According to the facts as one knows them; as far as one knows.

So without evidence, this sounds like you're arguing against your own point.

This is where I get confused.

There were reports of black males robbing the neighborhood for months. Identifying him as black seems like an observation, not racial profiling.

The chance of that black guy being a black criminal is preposterously low to the point where it is foolish to assume such a thing. It would be like saying most English teachers are women, so you suspect a particular woman of being an English teacher with no other information on her besides the fact she is a woman.

[kuronosan]

I'm not meaning to be hostile, forgive me.

[archibaldcrane]

This is where I get confused.

There were reports of black males robbing the neighborhood for months. Identifying him as black seems like an observation, not racial profiling.

"Zimmerman's black neighbor was quoted as saying "Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK? There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood. That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.""

Yeah, that's racist as fuck. Assuming that any given black person is guilty and "they always get away" is incredibly fucking racist.

Am I missing something? When "black" is your only descriptor - you don't have enough to suspect any individual. Suspecting someone purely because of their race, which is what Zimmy did here, is incredibly fucking racist.

That's what racists do.

They assume things about people solely based on their skin color.

They judge people by the color of their skin.

That is racism 101

it's like a master class in "how to be a racist"

it's essentially a binary

"Do you judge people by the color of their skin? If yes - you are a racist. If no - you are not a racist"

[Niiro]

Are people in here arguing that Trayvon attacked Zimmy for a reason other than because he didn't like being followed for no reason?

Whether he was or wasn't, this:

lol, it's now irrational to fight a racist who is following you just because you're black

Is fucking absurd.

[Denchi]

From the phone conversation, he was describing Trayvon's behavior as odd. He mentioned him being black only after being prompted by the police operator. Regardless, his skin color probably did set him apart, as crimes had been committed by black people in the days, weeks, and months prior.

That doesn't seem outrageous to me. That's like someone at police HQ telling units to look out for a black male wearing white shoes and a red hat. It's a description. Is it then racist to stop the next person outside fitting that description?

I seem to think the line is drawn when someone automatically assumes this person to be a criminal, or *the* person they're looking for. "Oh hi, you're black, you must do drugs and commit all the crimes!" Zimmerman's statement of "They always get away" doesn't seem to be clear enough for me to say he was acting on racial prejudice, there were other factors that made him suspicious. And the key word is suspicious. He didn't call police and say "Yup I've got the blackie criminal right here. He's the one, I'll tie him up for you."