Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[Dantrag]

cubans are racist against all other hispanics, blacks, indians, and asians. true story.

Puerto Ricans are racist against cubans, mexicans, etc etc etc etc
etc are racist against etc etc etc.

Shit Asians are racist against other Asians. Even if they don't know where they're from!

[Churchill]

Alright so we've established everyone is racist but we shouldn't have bumper stickers that are racist and a big problem is people getting away with murder because of their race vs. dead persons race but the problem is the police in particular and to a lesser extent racism but everyone is racist.

[Olo401]

.....seriously?

[Greatguardian]

Every group is racist against every group. Some just don't show it the same way others do. Puerto Ricans are racist against people from the Dominican Republic. You get the same shit everywhere.

Oh I know, I just find it fascinating to see how each group views itself and others. For example, my dad is a well-published Ph.D that pretty much anyone in his field would know offhand. Google is a fairly decent measure of a man's worth, and he is the all of top 5 google results for his first+last name. Regardless, none of his Indian neighbors would ever so much as speak to him because he's South Indian and Tamil. Ironically, he only ever got to be friendly with other Indian families because of my achievements - peeps wanted me to jump their daughters and such.

Stamping out racism is a tall order, especially when many people in general are more interested in turning back the clock than moving forward in time.

[Sera]

Alright so we've established everyone is racist but we shouldn't have bumper stickers that are racist and a big problem is people getting away with murder because of their race vs. dead persons race but the problem is the police in particular and to a lesser extent racism but everyone is racist.

Also there are reports from the witnesses that their statements were changed by the police.

[Sera]

.....seriously?

WOOOOOOOOOW you could hear a couple of uncomfortable reactions to that

[Churchill]

Would they have done that if the kid was white and the killer black?

[Greatguardian]

Also there are reports from the witnesses that their statements were changed by the police.

Taking the race of the victim aside for a moment, what other reasons would the cops have to do this? Is this guy working on something else for them? It's odd for cops to go all human shield for a hispanic man.

[archibaldcrane]

Shouldn't have been tasting the rainbow in a warzone.

George Zimmerman guarantees it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 4G using Tapatalk

[altwight]

Even I know that the chicken response was way over the line. Fucking bitch should be linched.

[altwight]

Taking the race of the victim aside for a moment, what other reasons would the cops have to do this? Is this guy working on something else for them? It's odd for cops to go all human shield for a hispanic man.

My guess is since he's captain of neighborhood watch they see him as a lower version of themselves. What do cops always do for other cops? etc just my guess.

[Chun Liroy]

That's the point we're (or at least I'm) trying to get at. Racism exists, that much is the truth. Killing someone solely because of their race does happen, but that doesn't make it acceptable, and a collective police force failing to uphold the law, whether or not they are racially influenced, is laughable.

Maybe they could work the whole "Don't kill blacks, because killing's a crime, and crime is for blacks" angle to lower the racially motivated homocides.

[Corrderio]

They were playing some of the 911 calls this morning over the news. Shit was pretty fucked up.

[Sera]

Would they have done that if the kid was white and the killer black?

changed witness statements? doubtful

[Headspace]

Doesn't Churchill view brown people as non human?

[Sera]

Taking the race of the victim aside for a moment, what other reasons would the cops have to do this? Is this guy working on something else for them? It's odd for cops to go all human shield for a hispanic man.

The argument seems to stem from FL's NRA sponsored "Stand Your Ground" law. This allows a person to exert deadly force WITHOUT trying to walk away from a confrontation. So they're saying it is self defense under that law. Except the kid wasn't armed and he wasn't confronting Zimmerman. Zimmerman was confronting and chasing HIM. But of course, that isn't Zimmerman's story. (But it was the story of the other witnesses, whose statements were eventually changed by the police department.)

The argument here is that Zimmerman FOLLOWED Treyvon, chased him down, and initiated the confrontation. Witnesses say the kid tried to run away and screamed/pleaded for his life before he was shot. You can hear as much in the 911 recordings. Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground, he was HUNTING that kid like game.

[Chun Liroy]

Re: Self Defense plea and why he shouldn't be able to get away with it.

Some guy wrote this out on reddit so take it with a grain of salt, but I doubt it's inaccurate.

Criminal defense attorney here practicing in Florida. This article is upsetting. I apologize for sounding smug but I have been following this story very carefully and it is disappointing when legal analysis is done by a non-attorney (at least I hope the author is not an attorney), especially when they are not familiar with all the laws or case law precedent in the jurisdiction since it almost always leads to the reader being misled, misinformed, or not knowing entirely everything they should know. I have been analyzing this case from its inception and have put myself in the shoes of the prosecution as to the best strategy to put Zimmerman behind bars if it gets to that point, which I hope it does.
If Zimmerman is ever charged, and a plea deal is not reached and Zimmerman proceeds to trial, he will obviously rely on self-defense. The article does a decent job of discussing this and the reasonableness standard. However, what is not discussed is that any decent Florida prosecutor will file a pre-trial motion, motion in limine, to prevent the defense from asserting self-defense during the trial. If this motion is won by the prosecution, then it will be game over for Zimmerman since his attorney will not be able to bring up self-defense to the jury throughout the entire trial and he will have zero defense.
The prosecution will cite to Florida Statute § 776.041 (2012), which states that the initial aggressor is precluded from asserting self-defense where he is the individual who provoked the use of force contemporaneously to the actions of the victim to which the defendant claims self-defense. (See also Martinez v. State, 981 So. 2d 449 (Fla. 2008); Marshall v. State, 604 So. 2d 799, 803 (Fla. 1992)).
Essentially, the prosecution must convince the judge in the pre-trial motion, through testimony and evidence, that Zimmerman created the need to use self-defense, therefore, he cannot assert self-defense pursuant to Fla. Stat. § 776.041 (2012). The prosecution will point to the obvious evidence such as Trayvon was not doing anything wrong, he had only a bag of skittles and a drink on him, the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman twice not to engage Trayvon, etc. Zimmerman created the need for the self-defense. Zimmerman had been watching Trayvon for some time while he was walking, Zimmerman approached him, Zimmerman more than likely placed his hand on him, thus creating a battery. What else would this seventeen year old kid be thinking? He was probably thinking Zimmerman wanted to hurt him or kidnap him. Zimmerman was not entitled to make a citizen’s arrest of Trayvon since Florida allows for private citizens to make a citizen’s arrest only if the person arrested has committed a felony in their presence. Phoenix v. State, 455 So. 2d 1024 (Fla. 1984). Obviously, that is not applicable here. If for some reason the judge denies this motion, then this argument can still be argued to the jury.
I have practiced out of Tallahassee, Orlando, and Tampa. This happens much too often. I am just glad this case is getting the publicity it needs to assist in ending this behavior. The behavior I am referring to is both the behavior of Zimmerman and the behavior of law enforcement.
Edit: pnoper is correct. I did leave that part of statute out. I did not think at this stage with the facts of the case it was applicable. Also, this is somewhat the point of my post in that discussing everything that truly needs to be discussed from a legal point of view would take too long and there are exceptions to the exception to the exception in almost every aspect of criminal law which non-attorneys just simply do not know and that even most attorney as well do not know. I guarantee if you did some case law research and limited your research to Florida Statute § 776.041(2)(b) (2012), you would find case precedent either defining that section more clearly, expounding on its meaning, or even limiting its application. We must be careful when reading legal analysis from non-attorneys.
excopandlawyer: you are correct, I did make up the fact that Zimmerman touched him first. I truly do not know what happened which is why I said more than likely did. But really, I do not know what happened and it will be up to the prosecution to elicit testimony as to this somehow.

[Greatguardian]

The argument seems to stem from FL's NRA sponsored "Stand Your Ground" law. This allows a person to exert deadly force WITHOUT trying to walk away from a confrontation. So they're saying it is self defense under that law. Except the kid wasn't armed and he wasn't confronting Zimmerman. Zimmerman was confronting and chasing HIM. But of course, that isn't Zimmerman's story. (But it was the story of the other witnesses, whose statements were eventually changed by the police department.)

The argument here is that Zimmerman FOLLOWED Treyvon, chased him down, and initiated the confrontation. Witnesses say the kid tried to run away and screamed/pleaded for his life before he was shot. You can hear as much in the 911 recordings. Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground, he was HUNTING that kid like game.

Oh, I don't deny any of that. I'm just more than a little jaded when it comes to these sorts of things. I have no problem believing that this man is a monster and killed an innocent kid (I mean, what kind of delinquent drinks Arizona iced tea?). I'm just wondering why in the world the cops are tripping over themselves so hard to protect him. The guy is a basket case, he's a liability. People have been put away for less, with less. The screams are on tape ffs. Better to toss him in jail and be done with it. Why keep him around?

[Sera]

Oh, I don't deny any of that. I'm just more than a little jaded when it comes to these sorts of things. I have no problem believing that this man is a monster and killed an innocent kid (I mean, what kind of delinquent drinks Arizona iced tea?). I'm just wondering why in the world the cops are tripping over themselves so hard to protect him. The guy is a basket case, he's a liability. People have been put away for less, with less. The screams are on tape ffs. Better to toss him in jail and be done with it. Why keep him around?

That's what I meant; because he's claiming that law as basis for his self defense. NRA is very powerful in FL.

[Greatguardian]

That's what I meant; because he's claiming that law as basis for his self defense. NRA is very powerful in FL.

Sounds like it. It's an interesting law to say the least. It's the same one evoked for that kid who stabbed his bully a dozen times a couple months ago, isn't it?

Gotta love our legal system.