Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[Dimmauk]

That's probably how it will be spun, and if the defense is smart, they will hammer home the point that they are not an authority figure, they are not sworn personal. They can only offer advice while they are sending an officer over. Honestly though looking at what facts have been established, and the assumptions on both sides, cause honestly it's all it is. There are only two witnesses, one is in jail, one is dead. The defense has already established that the supposed slur on the phone was not a slur and the prosecution has admitted as such. If the prosecution wants to see him do any time, they will allow the jury to consider manslaughter. If they go all in on second degree murder, I don't think they will get a conviction.

Totally agree, I don't think they will go for 2d murder.

[Acevalefor]

So they have no legal authority over you, but they are trained to instruct you on what to do. If you don't heed their advice, and something happens because of it, you are still responsible for the consequences.

At least, that's how it'll probably be spun.

What if you do heed their advice and it results in (insert something terrible awful here) happening?

/derail

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

You guys are making this way too complicated. If Treyvon was beating his head into the ground he is entitled to the common law version of the right to self defense. Florida's stand your ground law is irrelevant. It also won't matter that Zimmerman approached first if it's true that he disengaged.

And, even if Florida is a duty to retreat state, I don't know how it's even possible to retreat while your head is being bashed into the ground.

[AidenCarby]

Lol'd @ littering, Grade A trolling or these people are fucking douchebags.

[ronin sparthos]

Lol'd @ littering, Grade A trolling or these people are fucking douchebags.

I can assure you that wasn't trolling. lol

Racism is alive and well in America much as we try to cover it up and dismiss it as something left in the 60's.

[Melena]

What if you do heed their advice and it results in (insert something terrible awful here) happening?

/derail

i'm no lawyer, but probably depends on if the advice was good and if it was random act of god. If your calling about gun shots and the person tells you to look out the window to verify how many people with guns are out there and you get your head blown off then yea you may have a wrongful death suit on your hands. If your outside and you report a robbery and they tell you to stand still and don't follow and you listen and a piano falls on your head or the person randomly fires and you get hit by a ricochet, then you pretty much got an act of god kind of death and nothing would happen to the dispatcher.

[Melena]

I can assure you that wasn't trolling. lol

Racism is alive and well in the world much as we try to cover it up and dismiss it as something left in the 60's.

Fixed for ya. But yea, civil rights may have improved in the last 60 years, but improvement from absolute garbage to what it is now isn't saying much.

[Salodin]

What if you do heed their advice and it results in (insert something terrible awful here) happening?

/derail

But that didn't happen, so it's irrelevant.

You guys are making this way too complicated. If Treyvon was beating his head into the ground he is entitled to the common law version of the right to self defense. Florida's stand your ground law is irrelevant. It also won't matter that Zimmerman approached first if it's true that he disengaged.

And, even if Florida is a duty to retreat state, I don't know how it's even possible to retreat while your head is being bashed into the ground.

not this shit again...

[Melena]

You guys are making this way too complicated. If Treyvon was beating his head into the ground he is entitled to the common law version of the right to self defense. Florida's stand your ground law is irrelevant. It also won't matter that Zimmerman approached first if it's true that he disengaged.

And, even if Florida is a duty to retreat state, I don't know how it's even possible to retreat while your head is being bashed into the ground.

Only all the pictures and videos of Zimmerman have shown no signs of a physical altercation. My guess is more that Geroge I'm the God Damn Batman Zimmerman tried to "Citizen's Arrest" Treyvon, Treyvon told him to go fuck off, and it all went down hill from there.

[zoobernut]

You guys are making this way too complicated. If Treyvon was beating his head into the ground he is entitled to the common law version of the right to self defense. Florida's stand your ground law is irrelevant. It also won't matter that Zimmerman approached first if it's true that he disengaged.

And, even if Florida is a duty to retreat state, I don't know how it's even possible to retreat while your head is being bashed into the ground.

You are completely missing the point that was made many many pages ago in this thread is that the whole situation is so ambiguous and having no witnesses it could equally be argued that Treyvon was invoking his right to self defense when he was bashing his head into the ground. Prove to me that bashing Zimmermans head into the ground wasn't part of Treyvon defending himself.

You can't.

[Valisk]

You are completely missing the point that was made many many pages ago in this thread is that the whole situation is so ambiguous and having no witnesses it could equally be argued that Treyvon was invoking his right to self defense when he was bashing his head into the ground. Prove to me that bashing Zimmermans head into the ground wasn't part of Treyvon defending himself.

You can't.

Trayvon isn't the one on trial. The burden of proof is on the state and stare decisis is on Zimmerman's side. Florida has a long track record of people abusing the SYG clause and I imagine it will get re-examined after this case.

[zoobernut]

Trayvon isn't the one on trial. The burden of proof is on the state and stare decisis is on Zimmerman's side. Florida has a long track record of people abusing the SYG clause and I imagine it will get re-examined after this case.

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that in cases of self defense it is a little bit different and the burden of proof is on the person claiming self defense and not the state. But I might be totally off base on that.

[Melena]

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that in cases of self defense it is a little bit different and the burden of proof is on the person claiming self defense and not the state. But I might be totally off base on that.

In this case here, since it's a murder charge, the burden of proof is on the state to prove that Zimmerman did not act in self defense. If they can't prove within a reasonable doubt that zimmerman was never in danger and therefore had no need to use his gun on Trayvon, then he will walk. The joy of innocent till proven guilty which a lot of people, zimmerman included seem to forget now a days.

[Chun Liroy]

I wonder, then, would lack of injury be enough to do away with the whole self defense plea, given that Trayvon held no weapons other than his fists?

Also, can a suspect's changing of story be brought up in a professional manner in a courtroom?

"Look, this guy went from xx defense to this other one, he's just trying to do anything that will work"

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Only all the pictures and videos of Zimmerman have shown no signs of a physical altercation. My guess is more that Geroge I'm the God Damn Batman Zimmerman tried to "Citizen's Arrest" Treyvon, Treyvon told him to go fuck off, and it all went down hill from there.

I thought that was more media doctoring. Am I wrong?

[Qalbert]

yes

[Xno Kappa]

Also, can a suspect's changing of story be brought up in a professional manner in a courtroom?

"Look, this guy went from xx defense to this other one, he's just trying to do anything that will work"

Only if he gave conflicting reports to law enforcement personnel after he's been advised of his rights. If the defense sticks to the story Zimmerman gave on his sworn statement then the prosecutor can try to bring it up, but any defense worth their salt will object because the argument would essentially boil down to he said/she said in an attempt to influence the panel/jury.

[Brill Weave]

One way or the other Zimmerman will end up hurt or dead. If he gets acquitted sooner or later someone will find him. If he gets convicted he's probably going to need to be kept in the special wing of whatever pen he would go to. If they toss him in genpop he's dead. He's going to be living the rest of his life in fear of reprisal. He's never going to know peace again. This amuses me.

[Sera]

http://gothamist.com/2012/04/14/tray...e_wasnt_co.php


Interview with trayvon's big brother

[archibaldcrane]

Also, can a suspect's changing of story be brought up in a professional manner in a courtroom?

"Look, this guy went from xx defense to this other one, he's just trying to do anything that will work"

Absolutely - the prosecution will need to demonstrate that Zimmerman is an unreliable, self-motivated witness and a liar.