Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[AidenCarby]

I'm more so interested on how the black community will respond when he walks/gets a light sentence.

[Day]

The outcome of the court preceding doesn't change the nature of your argument though. If you feel the mf is guilty of killing someone, that is a fact. Whether he is guilty of murder or manslaughter doesn't change the fact that someone is dead. I don't personally think there is a right or wrong answer here, just a degree of personal opinion. Judicial facts at this point is just legalese.

We all know OJ did it, legally speaking the mf is innocent as a bird. Court proceedings didn't change my opinion on that. Although I'm not suggesting the trials are remotely similar, just using them as an example of personal opinion.

All I see is, this dude picked a fight with some kid, then shot the kid. As far as I have followed this, the kid wasn't armed to begin with, so that wasn't even remotely a fair fight. Proving innocent of murder, doesn't change the fact that he killed the kid.

He's a terrible human being, and he should feel terrible. Putting aside all arguments of race, age, etc.

Sure if you ignore the difference between self defense and murder 1 that makes sense. Shit is not so black and white (lol) If you follow that logic you must hate our troops.

And you don't know that guy, you don't know if he's a terrible human being or what. None of us were there so I don't know how you're so sure he stalked this kid with intent to kill him vs. asking the kid what he was doing and getting attacked and fearing for his life. I don't know what really happened, I wasn't there. All we have is the calls and the testimony.

What if the self defense situation happened to a family member of yours, would you be so inclined to call them terrible human beings?

[kuronosan]

Sure if you ignore the difference between self defense and murder 1 that makes sense. Shit is not so black and white (lol) If you follow that logic you must hate our troops.

And you don't know that guy, you don't know if he's a terrible human being or what. None of us were there so I don't know how you're so sure he stalked this kid with intent to kill him vs. asking the kid what he was doing and getting attacked and fearing for his life. I don't know what really happened, I wasn't there. All we have is the calls and the testimony.

What if the self defense situation happened to a family member of yours, would you be so inclined to call them terrible human beings?

Uh, if they instigated it? Yea. I would call them terrible. For that one act. They wouldn't be terrible people overall. I'm pretty sure when people say he's a horrible person they're not referring to his entire personality.

[Chun Liroy]

Sure if you ignore the difference between self defense and murder 1 that makes sense.

Personally, this is irrelevant to me. He provoked the altercation by approaching the kid first and foremost, possibly with weapon already drawn. He declared the victim guilty before he even got the full picture. You don't go to a bar, start a fight with someone, and then stab them when they retaliate and claim self defense...

[Xajii]

so for the people here (day, shitty goth avatar guy, meian) on the Not Guilty side, what is your response to the following points?

1. kid was unarmed
2. 911 told him not to pursue
3. evidence all leads to Zimmerman starting everything
4. no/minimal evidence of injury to Zimmerman

I don't think the "ill will" point is very relevant here, but the above sure is

[Waraji]

Assuming a family member of mine owned a gun, and that they would use such bad judgement to actually use it when confronting a kid they were following around whom they assumed was or wasn't committing a crime? Subjectively speaking, assuming all that, I would probably look down upon them.

It's not that I hate american troops, or any military for that matter, but I don't strongly favor the governments/religious figure/group that make them go out and kill in their name. I have military family members/friends who've been to war, they are mostly quite reasonably minded people, it's a moral quagmire of sorts.

No one was telling Zimmerman to go and chase this kid down, let alone confront him. So why should I be sympathetic to his cause of using the Stand Your Ground laws to defend his actions? I'm not sympathetic to the governments of the world for going to war.

[kuronosan]

Precisely. He chose to pursue someone and couldn't handle the consequences so he took the easy way out.

[Day]

Precisely. He chose to pursue someone and couldn't handle the consequences so he took the easy way out.

I doubt he felt or feels like this was easy was out.

I think strong case can be made for Trayvon choosing to attack someone and not being able to handle consequences as well.

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know for sure what actually happened. I'm just trying to tell you guys to not be surprised when he gets off.

[Kuya]

I doubt he felt or feels like this was easy was out.

I think strong case can be made for Trayvon choosing to attack someone and not being able to handle consequences as well.

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know for sure what actually happened. I'm just trying to tell you guys to not be surprised when he gets off.

Trayvon is the instigator?

[Waraji]

Why should we BE surprised? We know very well the way the court systems work in this country. It's innocent until PROVEN guilty. Chances are he's going to get off with Manslaughter due to Using the Stand Your Ground laws.

How he feels NOW after the fact is irrelevant. What criminal that gets caught after committing a serious crime doesn't feel remorse? Only the ones that are clinically insane can say otherwise, See James Holmes.

[Xajii]

Trayvon is the instigator?

the 911 call clearly shows he is not, idk what day is talking about.

[kuronosan]

I see what Day is trying to tell us. I just don't agree with it.

[Day]

Trayvon is the instigator?

Quite possibly the instigator of the physical altercation. Just because I ask you what you're doing in my neighborhood doesn't give you the right to attack me.

You guys are so quick to judge Zimmerman but never give a second thought to assuming Trayvon's innocence or guilt.

Forensics is currently proving when gun was fired Trayvon was on top of him, as evidence suggests gun was in contact with clothing and clothing was 2-4 inches from his body at time of the shot. I'm not going through all the other evidence and shit you can look all that up yourself.

Waraji, it's clear your beef is with the justice system, to which I can only shrug my shoulders, because that's how it is.

[Kuya]

Quite possibly the instigator of the physical altercation. Just because I ask you what you're doing in my neighborhood doesn't give you the right to attack me.

You guys are so quick to judge Zimmerman but never give a second thought to assuming Trayvon's innocence or guilt.

Forensics is currently proving when gun was fired Trayvon was on top of him, as evidence suggests gun was in contact with clothing and clothing was 2-4 inches from his body at time of the shot. I'm not going through all the other evidence and shit you can look all that up yourself.

Waraji, it's clear your beef is with the justice system, to which I can only shrug my shoulders, because that's how it is.

Do you know what happened when zimmerman came into contact with trayvon or do you know what happened when zimmerman called 911?

[Chun Liroy]

Quite possibly the instigator of the physical altercation. Just because I ask you what you're doing in my neighborhood doesn't give you the right to attack me.

You guys are so quick to judge Zimmerman but never give a second thought to assuming Trayvon's innocence or guilt.

Forensics is currently proving when gun was fired Trayvon was on top of him, as evidence suggests gun was in contact with clothing and clothing was 2-4 inches from his body at time of the shot. I'm not going through all the other evidence and shit you can look all that up yourself.

Waraji, it's clear your beef is with the justice system, to which I can only shrug my shoulders, because that's how it is.

And... again for my personal judgement, whether or not Trayvon started the altercation is irrelevant. Zimmerman confronted him, he was unarmed, when a police dispatcher told him very clearly NOT to pursue.

On the flip side, what if he walked up to Trayvon and said "What the fuck are you doing?" Zimmerman said "they always get away," I doubt he went up and said "Hello sir, what are you doing at night."

[Day]

Do you know what happened when zimmerman came into contact with trayvon or do you know what happened when zimmerman called 911?

No.

[Plow]

Why should we BE surprised? We know very well the way the court systems work in this country. It's innocent until PROVEN guilty. Chances are he's going to get off with Manslaughter due to Using the Stand Your Ground laws.

How he feels NOW after the fact is irrelevant. What criminal that gets caught after committing a serious crime doesn't feel remorse? Only the ones that are clinically insane can say otherwise, See James Holmes.

Stand your ground absolutely does not apply to instigating shit; people not understanding that is why the cops, and he through it was all good that day. Once the lawyers looked everything over they dropped that shit fast in favor of self defense, which is not the same thing.

Stand your ground says that if someone else starts shit with you, you don't have to run away. It does not mean you can chase someone down.

[Day]

And... again for my personal judgement, whether or not Trayvon started the altercation is irrelevant. Zimmerman confronted him, he was unarmed, when a police dispatcher told him very clearly NOT to pursue.

On the flip side, what if he walked up to Trayvon and said "What the fuck are you doing?" Zimmerman said "they always get away," I doubt he went up and said "Hello sir, what are you doing at night."

It's exactly relevant.

[Kuya]

No.

I don't know what happened when zimmy met martin either. What i do know, and this is an established fact: zim was told not to pursue and he did it anyway.

[Plow]

No.

wait, you don't know what happened when zimmerman called 911?

you haven't heard

dispatch: "wait, are you following him?"

zimmerman: "yes"

dispatch: "we don't need you to do that"

zimmerman: "ok"

at which point the dispatcher tries to get zimmerman to meet up with a cop somewhere, unaware that zimmerman's "ok" actually meant "whatever I'm doing it anyway"