Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[Chun Liroy]

To get manslaughter what do they have to prove? He's already admitted he killed the kid, afaik, and stand your ground is out of the picture. Have to prove it wasn't in self-defense/his life wasn't in danger from Martin?

[Byrthnoth]

If it's not self defense, then I think it has to be manslaughter. Self defense in Florida would be:

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/flor...-of-force.html

If a defendant was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked where he or she was allowed to be, then the defendant has no duty of retreat and has a right to use force, or even deadly force, if the defendant (under those circumstances) reasonably believed that his or her use of force was necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.

He was not engaged in an unlawful activity.

Debatable, but there's no evidence on this point really and the only witness has a vested interest in the case's outcome (Zimmerman)

This is why they're making Zimmerman look like a hambeast and playing up how much of a wussy he is/was. They can't prove what Zimmerman believed, but they can say it. They can show that Trayvon Martin had the potential to inflict great bodily harm on Zimmerman, which is what they have been trying to do.

[Anoat]

So is anyone putting up a tent next to Florida's Best Buys to get ready for their free Plasma when everyone starts rioting/looting due to Zimmerman getting off?

This has been getting shared on my FB wall a lot in the last 24 hours. I'm in Florida but nowhere near Sanford.

NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY ALLEGEDLY BUSING MOBS TO SANFORD, FLORIDA FOR EXPECTED RIOTS

Reports have come in from eye witnesses in Sanford, Florida that the New Black Panther Party, an extremist group that has called for the killing of George Zimmerman if he is found not guilty, is busing in thousands to that town. Sanford is the location of the trial and near the place where the shooting of Trayvon Martin by Zimmerman occurred. There have been threats of riots if Zimmerman is not found guilty and it is believed that the New Black Panther Party and other extremist groups will attempt to take advantage of racial tensions after a non guilty verdict by organizing riots.

Local police should be prepared for riots and Governor Rick Scott should be prepared to call in the National Guard at a moment's notice if needed. Local authorities should be ready to act and not allow this to create a situation like the South Central Los Angeles riots of 1992 after the verdict in the trial of the police officers that had beaten Rodney King.

It must also be remembered that these events are not “spontaneous” as the left wing media likes to portray them. They are deliberately organized. The riots in Los Angeles in 1992 were organized by several extremist left wing community organizer type groups including the local chapter of the Revolutionary Communist Party.

It should surprise no one that leftist groups are prepared to ignite rioting after the upcoming verdict in the George Zimmerman trial. Peaceful demonstrations should be allowed, but any degree of violence should immediately be stopped by local authorities.

http://www.qstarnews.com/a/articlete...clenumber=2715

TL;DR: lolfacebook racists

[Ksandra]

Sorry, legal system noob.

They can't retry him for the same crime, can they? If they fail at second degree murder, they don't just get voluntary manslaughter as the consolation prize, do they?

As Rowe mention, I think manslaughter is included for the jury. With that said, if the jury lets him walk, then yes he can't be retried unless he admits he murdered the kid (or admits to manslaughter). That's why O.J. could come out with the book called If I Did It, because it was how he "hypothetically" would have killed them. Since he never once says that's exactly what he did, the courts can't do jack shit.

However, they can file a civil suit afterwards. In Simpson's case, he lost the civil suit and had to pay out. Zimmerman has no money though so, doubt that means much.

[Byrthnoth]

Has there been a single piece of evidence presented that contradicts Zimmerman's version of the events? So far we've got:
* Girl who couldn't really provide any useful information (who threw the first punch).
* Handful of people that recognize Trayvon's voice and a handful of people that recognize Zimmerman's voice in the recording. Zimmerman didn't recognize his own voice at the time. Trayvon's dad didn't recognize Trayvon's voice at the time.

The official story AFAIK is that Zimmerman thought Trayvon was going for Zimmerman's own gun, so he grabbed the gun and shot him. There's no one around to contradict his narrative, so the defense basically has to show that it's reasonable that Trayvon might have gotten control of the gun and killed him with it.
* Trayvon apparently took part in at least one organized fight, not that the jury will be told.
* Zimmerman received formal fighting instruction, but may have had reason to feel insecure in his fighting ability.

So I don't know. I think it could go either way then. I wonder what the bookies are setting for innocent vs. guilty right now. I'd go 30:70, giving the lead to guilty for irrational reasons. "Jury of peers" very rarely means "jury of people with the capacity for rational thought." Otherwise I'd probably go 60:40.

[Rowe]

http://ionenewsone.files.wordpress.c...pg?w=640&h=518
Zimmerman's fighting skill is lacking. The medical examiner said there was evidence of at least six distinct blows to the face.


And on the point of lesser included charges(manslaughter, aggravated assault) the defense will try to have those excluded because it gives the jury an easier way out. But in Florida those are almost always included in the jury instructions. Almost a sure thing.

I would chalk this whole thing up to mutual stupidity before I would racism.

[Cream Soda]

[Salodin]

Have they been arrested? Cause if so then why do I care? The system is handling it already.

[Plow]

http://ionenewsone.files.wordpress.c...pg?w=640&h=518
Zimmerman's fighting skill is lacking. The medical examiner said there was evidence of at least six distinct blows to the face.

Yeah, such a savage beating he took, you should see what it looks like after a few minutes with a washcloth.




How could you not shoot someone knowing you were going to come out of the confrontation looking like that?!

[Chun Liroy]

How do you get that fat that fast.

[Plow]

Has there been a single piece of evidence presented that contradicts Zimmerman's version of the events?

Well, first off, the defense's version actually contradicts Zimmerman's version in a way. They've been trying pretty much exclusively to show he was scared of death from the head blows, with almost no approach of the whole "trying to get his gun" thing, except to say that "well it's at least possible" in the face of repeated arguments that it's not reasonable to believe Trayvon was going to get at the gun until Zimmerman actually pulled it out.

There's also Zimmerman's own lies- claiming he didn't know about stand your ground when he'd admitted he did, lying about how much money he had and using pathetic "code words" and shit to organize hiding it from the bond people, all while joking with his wife about how they're going to have such a great life after this and he can hide from the press and shit in his hoodie.

Finally, there's clear evidence Zimmerman held ill will towards Martin before he knew anything about him.

There's more than that as well, and the vast majority of the defense has resorted to "well it's possible that..." rather than "so a reasonable person should expect that..."

[Plow]

How do you get that fat that fast.

At the direction of lawyers that decided a year ago that the best way to convince a jury he was scared was to convince the jury he's a pussy.


In theory it shouldn't work considering how a 300 pounder vs a 150 pounder between 2 barely or not at all trained fighters is likely to go, but he does in fact look more like a mature older man this way as opposed to a pissed off dude with a gun that wants to be a badass.

[AidenCarby]

How do you get that fat that fast.

Jail food and not lifting lol.

[Plow]

He was only in jail for like a month or 2, and he definitely didn't gain 100 lbs in that time.

edit: actually I don't even think it was that long, I can't find anything precise tho

[Churchill]

If you carry a weapon without a round in the chamber then you are just being a fucktard. When you pull that weapon out to react to a situation any shooter worth more than the two shits Plow ate this morning will have dropped your sorry ass for not loading your weapon.

Fuck the only time I take rounds out of the chamber is when I clean magazines/release springs.

[Churchill]

wiki that

[Plow]

If you carry a gun with a round in the chamber you're an absolute retard. When you sit down or try to pull it out or brush up against a fence or a 4 year old grabs at you and it goes off, you end up with an even smaller cock than church.


The only people that argue in favor of civilians carrying with a round in the chamber are idiotic gun nuts.

The idiotic is definitely a required qualifier, too, as all but the dumbest of gun fanatics have their kids being proud as fuck of their gun safety understanding by the time they're like 5.

[Rowe]

Well, first off, the defense's version actually contradicts Zimmerman's version in a way. They've been trying pretty much exclusively to show he was scared of death from the head blows, with almost no approach of the whole "trying to get his gun" thing, except to say that "well it's at least possible" in the face of repeated arguments that it's not reasonable to believe Trayvon was going to get at the gun until Zimmerman actually pulled it out.

There's also Zimmerman's own lies- claiming he didn't know about stand your ground when he'd admitted he did, lying about how much money he had and using pathetic "code words" and shit to organize hiding it from the bond people, all while joking with his wife about how they're going to have such a great life after this and he can hide from the press and shit in his hoodie.

Finally, there's clear evidence Zimmerman held ill will towards Martin before he knew anything about him.
There's more than that as well, and the vast majority of the defense has resorted to "well it's possible that..." rather than "so a reasonable person should expect that..."

Simple logic would dictate that if a man in possession of a firearm held ill will against an unarmed man the armed man would not end up with a broken nose and several contusions.

If he truly held ill will he would have already had his weapon drawn and he never would have gotten punched and knocked to the ground. IF his gun were drawn any reasonable person would have yelled/screamed call the police, no reasonable person would attack someone with a drawn gun.

Anyone with a concealed weapon would not attempt a physical altercation with an unknown individual for fear of losing possession of their weapon. The only logical conclusion is the physical altercation was started by the unarmed individual.

Suspicion does not equal ill will/malice. The burden of proof in on the prosecution.

Only dumb fucks who don't follow proper firearms safety rules, fail to get proper firearms training from a qualified instructor, and prefer to tuck their gun in their waistband or pocket rather than buying a proper holster need fear accidental discharges. A gun without a round in the chamber is a club. Yes in the past when SA semi auto pistols were the preferred carry weapon Condition 3 was taught but with DA semi autos conditions 2 and 1 are.

[Salodin]

While it sounds scary to chamber a round at all times, it'd equally retarded to allow people to carry firearms for protection while at the same time telling them to keep the chamber empty. If you can't do that, then what's the point?

Besides, there are enough safety precautions in place to keep accidents from happening. The laws are in place so that responsible owners can protect themselves. Whether you like it or not, our gun laws are in place with out taking into consideration the lowest common denominator. Let darwin sort the rest out.

[Plow]

Simple logic would dictate that if a man in possession of a firearm held ill will against an unarmed man the armed man would not end up with a broken nose and several contusions.

If he truly held ill will he would have already had his weapon drawn and he never would have gotten punched and knocked to the ground. IF his gun were drawn any reasonable person would have yelled/screamed call the police, no reasonable person would attack someone with a drawn gun.

Anyone with a concealed weapon would not attempt a physical altercation with an unknown individual for fear of losing possession of their weapon. The only logical conclusion is the physical altercation was started by the unarmed individual.

Suspicion does not equal ill will/malice. The burden of proof in on the prosecution.

a. you're assuming zimmerman was reasonable/logical

like...

If this:

Anyone with a concealed weapon would not attempt a physical altercation with an unknown individual for fear of losing possession of their weapon.

were the case, there would be a hell of a lot less gun deaths.

At best you could argue that a licensed carrier might be slightly deterred by the threat of losing their license, but fucking idiots with guns start fights on the assumption that they can pull out their gun if it doesn't go their way every single day.

b. no, suspicion doesn't equal ill will.

Referring to someone as part of a group of "assholes that always get away, fucking punks" as you get out of the car to chase someone down sure as fuck does.


Especially given that police have testified that based on what Zimmerman described, they would absolutely not have stopped or questioned Trayvon. Meaning his "suspicion" did not fit the legal definition of "reasonable suspicion."