Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[Plow]

While it sounds scary to chamber a round at all times, it'd equally retarded to allow people to carry firearms for protection while at the same time telling them to keep the chamber empty. If you can't do that, then what's the point?

Besides, there are enough safety precautions in place to keep accidents from happening. The laws are in place so that responsible owners can protect themselves. Whether you like it or not, our gun laws are in place with out taking into consideration the lowest common denominator. Let darwin sort the rest out.

Oh, I'm not saying it's illegal, just that it's dumb.

What you do with your gun when it comes time to use it for real is almost entirely a function of what you do when you practice using your gun.

Arguments that you can't be expected to flip a safety because it's not what you do at the range (literally a claim used in this case), or that you can't be expected to cock the gun when you pull it out are dumb, because if your practice routine is to pull out your gun, cock it and shoot, that's what you're going to do when you don't have time to think about it.

[Salodin]

You can argue that it's reasonable to do with proper training, but that's irrelevant. You said yourself it's not illegal, and thats all that matters in a court of law.

[Rowe]

http://simplyaboutguns.com/round-in-the-chamber/

As I said earlier if you carry Condition 3, full Mag, empty chamber you need 2 hands when drawing your weapon, to rack the slide and chamber a round. This is easy to do with the proper training and you can get on target nearly as quickly but sometimes one hand is busy.

Take people out of the equation. You are walking after dinner and a 130 pound Rottweiler charges out of the bushes and clamps onto one of your arms. You draw you firearm and do what with an empty chamber? Pistol whip it as it rips your flesh off and crushes you bones. Try to rack the slide with one hand and your mouth? Kick off a shoe and try using your toes.

Revolvers don't have safeties and if anything are sometimes carried with the hammer on an empty cylinder put pulling the trigger cocks the hammer and rotates the cylinder to the loaded one and drops the hammer. Double action semi autos (DA or DA/SA) have a long trigger pull / first trigger pull and are not very likely to accidentally discharge due to impact.

[Plow]

You can argue that it's reasonable to do with proper training, but that's irrelevant. You said yourself it's not illegal, and thats all that matters in a court of law.

If the charge was carrying a gun with a bullet in the chamber, sure. This is about establishing what was in his mind as he went into this, and it's that he had a gun ready to be whipped out and fired absolutely as fast as he possibly could, safety be damned.

[Plow]

http://simplyaboutguns.com/round-in-the-chamber/

you realize that even though you posted a 1 sided article attempting to justify his stance pretending to be a balanced comparison...


his one big con is an entire paragraph describing exactly the kind of situation zimmerman put himself in here

[Krandor]

If you carry a gun with a round in the chamber you're an absolute retard. When you sit down or try to pull it out or brush up against a fence or a 4 year old grabs at you and it goes off, you end up with an even smaller cock than church.

Do you know what a safety is?

[Day]

Plow sounding a lot like he's never seen a gun in real life, getting owned by people with clearly more knowledge on the matter. I'd cut my losses if it were me.

[Plow]

Do you know what a safety is?

Yes, and the only one this had is a pure impact safety. Any kind of accident that actually pulls the trigger = shots fired.

[Plow]

Plow sounding a lot like he's never seen a gun in real life, getting owned by people with clearly more knowledge on the matter. I'd cut my losses if it were me.

Really day?

Did you read the article he posted?

The one supposedly giving a look at the pros and cons that didn't address accidental discharge aside from someone else getting the gun?


Their arguments are absolutely literally "that shit will never happen to me."

[Plow]

Meanwhile people that I'm pretty sure weren't even aware guns without a "push this button to turn safety on/off" even existed before this discussion are "accusing" a rural kansan of not having spent time around guns.


Should know by now the NRA would never let silly shit like "meaningful safety measures" be requirements of anything relating to guns, especially if it might affect sales.

[Krandor]

So you're telling me that you can fully depress the trigger of a gun with a trigger guard (that in Zimmerman's case found in a holster) by sitting down?

You also didn't specify that you were specifically referring to Zimmerman's model in the post I quoted, you were generalizing that anyone carrying a gun with a round chambered is an idiot.

[Salodin]

If the charge was carrying a gun with a bullet in the chamber, sure. This is about establishing what was in his mind as he went into this, and it's that he had a gun ready to be whipped out and fired absolutely as fast as he possibly could, safety be damned.

He followed the gun carrying rules, you can't hold that against him no matter how much you wish you could. What you're arguing is relevant only if there was a witness that saw Zimmerman run to Treyvon and start the fight, and since there are none, well then you're just arguing because you like to type a lot.

Argue facts of the case, not what ifs. This thread is long enough already considering we don't know jack shit about what went down that night.

[Coren]

I doubt he felt or feels like this was easy was out.

I think strong case can be made for Trayvon choosing to attack someone and not being able to handle consequences as well.

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know for sure what actually happened. I'm just trying to tell you guys to not be surprised when he gets off.

Just like it's the woman's fault she gets raped because she was wearing sexy clothes? The stupid fucker was told by cops NOT to chase, and he ended up killing somebody. /caseclosed.

[Acevalefor]

Just like it's the woman's fault she gets raped because she was wearing sexy clothes? The stupid fucker was told by cops NOT to chase, and he ended up killing somebody. /caseclosed.

Go back and read a few pages. This has been covered over and over and over and over. The horse is dead. He was not told not to follow the kid. The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that". That is a statement, not a command.

There is a strong possibility that Martin was the one that started the fight. So remind me again who was wearing sexy clothes?

[kuronosan]

Like I said. Zimmerman got in over his head and instigated a confrontation, even if indirectly or unintentionally. The end result is he got his ass kicked and a teenager is dead. I don't think for a second the killing was intentional but it was definitely deliberate. I would even say that Zimmerman may have thought he was in mortal danger.

The problem is that he put himself in that position when he both shouldn't have and had no reason to do so.

[Blubbartron]

As much as I'm loathe to agree with Plow, he's absolutely correct that people who carry guns are more willing to start confrontations than people without. There have been several studies done that show violent tendencies and the willingness to act without considering consequences dramatically increases simply in the presence of firearms (even fake ones for people who aren't gun nuts).

[Churchill]

if you're going to leave the house with an unloaded weapon, why take it? lol.

people who dont carry with a round in the chamber are people who have never used a weapon before and are arguing their feelings. guns dont AD just because your jimmies get rustled. The only handgun I've ever fired that I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying is a 92F because it is absolute shit and I'm glad my unit used glock 22's (ignoring that carrying a pistol is mostly retarded when you are afforded a rifle, but whatevs)

Now, when folks who have never fired a weapon at a person before carry with a round in the chamber, I agree that bad things happen. bad things happen because those people dont respect the power they wield and their thoughts are not attached to that weapon. that's why shit ass pog units dont even carry rifles with magazines in them because those little shits will fire that shit off while cleaning it. these are the plows of the world.

for the record, I am just as willing to be violent sans handgun and have never drawn it as a civilian. the only time I would have i wasn't carrying but that's because I was on post. nigga started firing rounds off in the PX, we let him bleed out and die while we saved the other people. EMTs gave us a wtf look. yolo.

[Plow]

shit would NEVER happen to me

right

[Plow]

By the way, there's something else important people have completely glossed over:

Jurors are instructed that if someone is proven to have lied, you can completely discount all of their testimony and anything that hinges on it.

I.E. Zimmerman getting caught lying means his entire story can be completely ignored by the jurors, if they choose so. Exactly the same as "bagelneck."

[Seiji Okita]

First off, i want to say that it's nice to see someone in this thread actually speaking sense as it relates to this actual case and not what we want to personally cling to. I tried and subsequently felt like i had banged my head into the wall with each post. lol

By the way, there's something else important people have completely glossed over:

Jurors are instructed that if someone is proven to have lied, you can completely discount all of their testimony and anything that hinges on it.

I.E. Zimmerman getting caught lying means his entire story can be completely ignored by the jurors, if they choose so. Exactly the same as "bagelneck."

Now, onto this. Let's just say for a minute that the jury actually does completely strike Zimmerman's testimony from their decision making process. What does that leave them with?

We have one eye witness(the only eye witness) who saw Zimmerman underneath Martin getting shit stomped.


We have two of Martin's family members who have been confronted about saying it wasn't Trayvon Martin on the tape screaming. Even though they covered themselves with stories of disbelief and agony at what they listened to at the time, it still presents reasonable doubt.

Then we have to dude who wrote the motherfucking book "Forensic Pathology" saying that he can attest after reviewing the case that the defenses story lines up with the evidence in question. He also called the states examiners out on fucking up their jobs, and gave his assessment that someone in Zimmerman's position having the state of mind that their life may be threatened... He wrote motherfucking book of his field lol.

Finally, the jury will be told that if while looking over the case they find that multiple hypothetical situations that they have been presented are possible, not even 50/50 possible. If they feel that there is ANY chance that the states narrative may be wrong they must acquit. This is what is so interesting in this case, because i have never seen this before. The state came out in opening arguments and during their beginning testimony painting the picture to the jury that Zimmerman was on top during the fight... Now, at the end of the defenses case they have seemingly altered their narrative mid-trial to say, Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman but was trying to get up and back away from him when he was shot.

So effectively during the entirety of the states case they themselves have presented what they see as two possible hypothetical situations that could have occurred. I am pretty sure that is the definition of reasonable doubt and the state are the ones who handed that reasonable doubt the the jurors without even incorporating anything from the defenses case lol.

So even if you want to ignore the facts of the case, and you want to continue to include your own personal feelings into this debate of law, you have to submit that the state has fucked their case up, and it mostly stems from their not being much of a case. Hence why he was not arrested in the first place.

Edit: people make dumb fucking decisions every day and shoot and/or get shot, why is Trayvon Martin automatically immune in your mind because of his skin color and age? If you start a physical altercation with someone armed with a gun, the chances of you being killed sky rocket. Living in the state of Florida you should know the law, and knowing the law you should fully expect to be shot in FL once you begin to woop someones ass. Does that suck? maybe, but just don't fucking fight people lmfao