Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[kuronosan]

wat double

[Seiji Okita]

All this talk about racsim, at the end of the day as I said before they both fucked up.

Trayvon's first reaction to him was, oh shit creepy ass white dude looking at me I might want to run away.

[Blubbartron]

Because I'm sure that Martin knew he shouldn't have been where he was, right? This is no more justification than Chris Dorner's cop killings causing cops to go insane and shoot every car and person that remotely resembled him.

That is a really, really poor argument for Zimmerman's behavior. Nothing that you said resembles common sense.

I'm not excusing his behavior (he was doing something way above his pay grade of nothing - ideally he would have called in a suspicious person in the area and call it a night), I'm trying to excuse his thought process, because it was completely rational (i.e. not racist or profiling). If you see someone fitting a description of a criminal and don't have the thought "maybe that's the guy" run through your head, you're probably a bit retarded. Black male is a vague description in general, but perhaps in this particular gated community only <1% of the population is a black male. The locale-specific preponderance of the trait used to identify someone determines how safely you can assume you found the right person.

[Enkidu]

Then he should have waited for the police. Like the police told him to do.

I have read a couple different articles from lawyers in different states without "stand your ground" laws. And they all said that Zimmerman would have been guilty easily because he put himself into the situation.

He was talking to a non-emergency dispatcher that in the conversation actually asked him for the address of the house he was by and the street, which Zimmerman claimed he didn't know and got out to look... When asked if he was following the guy the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that and he said "okay".

You can read more into it and speculate as much as you want, but there's no evidence that he disobeyed a police officer or actively followed/stalked Martin after being told he didn't have to do that by the dispatcher. I don't think "stand your ground" was even used in this case at all, it was a basic self-defense case...

[Blubbartron]

double

[ringthree]

Initiated confrontation, sure maybe... But he clearly said physical confrontation. Martin initiated violence, there's no real way to deny that.

Can't deny it because Martin is dead...

[ronin sparthos]

That is the problem right there. Instead of encouraging everyone that gets profiles to lay down and take it up the ass, they, the NAACP, should be working toward equal treatment as well as heavy handed punishment for anyone found, in a court of law, to be guilty of creating a hostile confrontation where race is a motive. Why does law enforcement get a free pass to accost black people in the south? Why the fuck is skin color still a thing in 2013? The silence from the host was because the guest was standoffish like "wtf do you mean 'what can we learn from this?'". The host was dumbfounded at how he said that basically, if you are black (especially in the south) you are less of a person and should act as such when confronted by "authority". Authority being in quotations because the way he said it makes it sound like anyone can appoint themselves a position of authority over a black person....

I agree that rather than repeating what most persons of color already know, the NAACP and other organizations that claim to be about equality should be using the Zimmerman trial as a springboard for initiatives and campaigns to uplift the community rather than focusing in on trying to 'damage' Zimmerman. Zimmy in jail doesn't change the reality of being profiled, of a culture destroying itself, of a culture deprived of opportunity unless you can sing, play sports, dance, act or otherwise entertain the masses.

However, the reality is that law enforcement and the criminal justice system is heavy handed with persons of color, Americans are convinced that blacks are the embodiment of criminal activity and the advice to deescalate any potential confrontations (if you can) is timely and concise for anyone of Trayvon's age to take as a lesson, regardless of the specific details of this trial. It's far too common to simply gun down some black kid, claim he made a threatening gesture, drop some reputation napalm and watch as the mother buries yet another son as society accepts it as all apart of 'the plan'. Until the social paradigm shifts, encounters with law enforcement as someone of color will always take on a level of tension not equal to their white peers and understanding that reality is the first step towards changing the situation.

No one is saying you can't fight to defend your rights as an American but there is a time and place for that and it isn't while you're being pulled over by a cop. A cop you know is itching to discharge a weapon because darkie made a sudden movement for a wallet. Of course I'm exaggerating some.

[quannum]

I'm not excusing his behavior (he was doing something way above his pay grade of nothing - ideally he would have called in a suspicious person in the area and call it a night), I'm trying to excuse his thought process, because it was completely rational (i.e. not racist or profiling). If you see someone fitting a description of a criminal and don't have the thought "maybe that's the guy" run through your head, you're probably a bit retarded. Black male is a vague description in general, but perhaps in this particular gated community only <1% of the population is a black male. The locale-specific preponderance of the trait used to identify someone determines how safely you can assume you found the right person.

its nice when racists rationalize their stupidity.

[Enkidu]

Can't deny it because Martin is dead...

Also all of the evidence in the case points to this being the case... For example, no physical injuries on Martin aside from the gunshot wound.

[ringthree]

He was talking to a non-emergency dispatcher that in the conversation actually asked him for the address of the house he was by and the street, which Zimmerman claimed he didn't know and got out to look... When asked if he was following the guy the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that and he said "okay".

You can read more into it and speculate as much as you want, but there's no evidence that he disobeyed a police officer or actively followed/stalked Martin after being told he didn't have to do that by the dispatcher. I don't think "stand your ground" was even used in this case at all, it was a basic self-defense case...

When one of the witnesses is dead, taking the other witnesses statements as absolute is just as bad as (if not worse) "speculating". Or are you really stating that you are speculating that Zimmerman hung up, minded his own business, Martin came up to him and punched him in the face, then Zimmerman pursued and called the police again?

[ringthree]

Also all of the evidence in the case points to this being the case... For example, no physical injuries on Martin aside from the gunshot wound.

Oh, so that OBVIOUSLY means that Zimmerman was minding his own business and Martin jumped him. Even though Zimmerman made it clear that he was going to pursue Martin against advice.

Instead of, say, a rational explanation.

[ronin sparthos]

If you think you spot a potential burglar, why the fuck would you get out of your vehicle to confront this strange individual that could potentially be armed? Alone no less?

[kuronosan]

Also all of the evidence in the case points to this being the case... For example, no physical injuries on Martin aside from the gunshot wound.

Yea, that clearly means Martin instigated the whole thing. It doesn't mean Zimmerman did and is just a shitty fighter.

[ringthree]

If you think you spot a potential burglar, why the fuck would you get out of your vehicle to confront this strange individual that could potentially be armed? Alone no less?

SPECULATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was obviously just going to give Martin some candy and offer to give him a ride home.

HOW DARE YOU SPECULATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Enkidu]

So instead we should make up a story that suits our own vision of what happened? Does the evidence back up Zimmerman's story? Yes. End of story.

Nobody is claiming Zimmerman made a good decision, just that he didn't do anything illegal.

[Denchi]

Then he should have waited for the police. Like the police told him to do.

I have read a couple different articles from lawyers in different states without "stand your ground" laws. And they all said that Zimmerman would have been guilty easily because he put himself into the situation.

I'm very surprised by that assertion.

[D44kpunk]

the lack of legal knowledge in this thread is astounding.

[ronin sparthos]

the lack of legal knowledge in this thread is astounding.

Site isn't called LegalGartr.com for a reason.

[ringthree]

I'm very surprised by that assertion.

Meh, checking now. It was about self-defense not about stand your ground. Turns out it was the opposite conclusion, not about guilt but about how you can get off.

Still, http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archive...lorida_law.php

Just kill the witness, you are going to get off.

[Alarial]

So instead we should make up a story that suits our own vision of what happened? Does the evidence back up Zimmerman's story? Yes. End of story.

Nobody is claiming Zimmerman made a good decision, just that he didn't do anything illegal.

Evidence not completely refuting a story is not the same as "evidence backing up" a story.