Teenager shot/killed while Tweek's hero gets off free

[notorious bum]

Oops, this guy explaining common sense to all the cowards supporting Zimmy's swiss cheese story.

[Serra]

I'm glad this guy with no legal training was able to so clearly prove the truth behind this case. I know there are going to be a lot of these videos, but it's not going to stop irritating me..

Now, in response to some of the points of the video (and only some because I've been drinking..), just because he had a gun, doesn't mean that he was expecting to be jumped or even wanted to use it. The guy even says, he had it for self defense. Just because you see someone or think they're a threat, does not mean you're going to pull out your gun and shoot them. The first part of the video just throws water on the argument that this wasn't a last resort for Zimmerman.

Plausible explanation: Zimmerman saw Martin, didn't want to just pull out his gun, Martin started assaulting him, and he started to fear for his life so he shot him. He called for help because he didn't want to resort to killing a kid.

Like I said earlier, I didn't follow the case especially close, but I recall the prosecution presenting the fact that the gun had no DNA on it. Anyone know if the defense presenting some plausible defense on that point? Did Zimmerman have any of Martin's blood on him? Because if so, maybe the blood just missed the gun.

[notorious bum]

wtf does legal training have to do with Zimmy's fairytale of getting bashed and suffocated and so horribly fucked-up, yet zero forensic evidence supports him? Do you not see how many hoops you need to jump through to believe any of this self-defense bullshit? That's the point of the video.

[Day]

Man someone should have brought that up during the trial.

[Deader2818]

So from what ive learned, if I dont think Zimmer should be locked up in jail for the rest of his life, im a racist?

[notorious bum]

You didn't learn anything, you're doing some serious mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion; that's probably also why you're buying this bs story in the first place.

[Churchill]

200 years from now zims will be remembered like we remember george washington, never told a lie

[Krandor]

IDK if that's old since I normally browse on tapatalk, but what's going on with that sig Church?

Also, feels like this thread is repeating itself since it's already been brought up multiple times that once the case got rolling, Zimmerman's story wasn't really relevant anymore. What mattered was the evidence, or more specifically the overwhelming lack thereof that led to "Not Guilty"

[Lordender]

Get em, mike, get em.

[Churchill]

[Seiji Okita]

wtf does legal training have to do with Zimmy's fairytale of getting bashed and suffocated and so horribly fucked-up, yet zero forensic evidence supports him? Do you not see how many hoops you need to jump through to believe any of this self-defense bullshit? That's the point of the video.

0 forensic evidence? Did you even watch the trial? You can refute the injuries Zimmerman had on him all you want, but even if damage wasn't extensive(in your mind) there was a lot of it all over his head and face. The physical confrontation only lasted ~1 minute, so considering the damage Zimmerman took in such a short amount of time just goes to show he was being overwhelmed. Combine that with no injuries aside from the gunshot on Trayvon... and i believe that is what they call forensic evidence?

Honestly, Trayvon should have just got off the phone with his friend and called the police if he felt like he was being stalked where he had the right to be. Not just run away from some creepy white guy he sees in a car.

[Krandor]

Without even clicking on the video I was disappointed in myself for not remembering that segment.

[Meresgi]

Homicide is homicide. Justifiable or not

If there were true there wouldn't be so many variations of it in a court of law.

[notorious bum]

David Simon, certified genius and creator of “The Wire,” shared his thoughts on the Zimmerman verdict fray with a short, pungent post on his site. The key graphs:

If I were a person of color in Florida, I would pick up a brick and start walking toward that courthouse in Sanford. Those that do not, those that hold the pain and betrayal inside and somehow manage to resist violence — these citizens are testament to a stoic tolerance that is more than the rest of us deserve. I confess, their patience and patriotism is well beyond my own.

Behold, the lewd, pornographic embrace of two great American pathologies: Race and guns, both of which have conspired not only to take the life of a teenager, but to make that killing entirely permissible. I can’t look an African-American parent in the eye for thinking about what they must tell their sons about what can happen to them on the streets of their country. Tonight, anyone who truly understands what justice is and what it requires of a society is ashamed to call himself an American.

He then mixed it up in the comments section:

Get ready for the next case. Middle-aged white guy opens fire, kills young black male by firing repeatedly into his car at a gas station after an argument that commenced because a radio was playing loudly. Defendant has invoked stand your ground statute. Florida, again.

The law has changed — and the culture of legal self-defense is changing — in a revolutionary fashion. There will be more of these cases now. Not less.

And this:

Do you believe that common assault — and indeed that assault may have been mutual combat, as we can never know who first laid hands on who — is punishable by summary execution. American law and the standards for self-defense used to say no. Stand-your-ground says yes.

Or worse, do you think “criminal activity” is grounds for the use of lethal force? Property crime? Trespassing?

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/15/davi...nt_in_the_eye/

[Serra]

And it doesn't help that that your video flat out lies about at least one point. Look at the picture of Martin's body (not gonna post the picture, but here's a link: http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-m...body-753370712 ). Sure doesn't look like his arms are crossed as if he fell backwards..

You didn't learn anything, you're doing some serious mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion; that's probably also why you're buying this bs story in the first place.

Again, it is not about buying Zimmerman's story, it's about believing that it is plausible. The defense only has to prove that their story is a plausible explanation of the events. And, the meager evidence that is available and non-debatable (specifically Zimmerman's injuries and the lack of injuries on Martin) definitely provides plausibility to Zimmerman's story.

[Zetanio]

What a jerk off.

[Denchi]

Just some more clarification. Apparently the "Burden of Proof" in self defense cases is no different in Florida as in other states. I thought I remember that being debated earlier...

"Who should bear the burden of proving or disproving self-defense in criminal cases, and by what quantum (preponderance of the evidence, clear and convincing evidence, or beyond a reasonable doubt), is an interesting question. But on this point, Florida law is precisely the same as in nearly all other states: In 49 of the 50 states, once the defense introduces any evidence of possible self-defense, the prosecution must disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt."

http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/14/bur...ce=twitterfeed

[Plow]

I was listening to a local talk show on the way to work this morning and the host was interviewing someone from the NAACP. I didn't catch the name because I came into it in the middle of the interview.
She asked: What can young black Americans learn from this [Zimmerman/Martin] case going forward?
His Response*: They can learn that they have the responsibility to deescalate any given confrontation with authority. Whether it is a police officer or a zealous neighborhood watcher, our young people have a responsibility to do whatever they can to flee, call for help, (he lists several things here), and avoid a confrontation. When dealing with police specifically every American has a responsibility to cooperate fully and give the officer no reason to use force.

There was silence for a good 20 seconds then the host floundered for something to say then went to commercial break. I get that he is saying it is better to run and live free another day, but what he said and the way he said it was very close to blaming victims when they are accosted. Saying that the responsibility is on the potential victim to deescalate a confrontation is exactly opposite of Stand Your Ground mentality.

*His response was paraphrased.

I agree that rather than repeating what most persons of color already know, the NAACP and other organizations that claim to be about equality should be using the Zimmerman trial as a springboard for initiatives and campaigns to uplift the community rather than focusing in on trying to 'damage' Zimmerman. Zimmy in jail doesn't change the reality of being profiled, of a culture destroying itself, of a culture deprived of opportunity unless you can sing, play sports, dance, act or otherwise entertain the masses.

However, the reality is that law enforcement and the criminal justice system is heavy handed with persons of color, Americans are convinced that blacks are the embodiment of criminal activity and the advice to deescalate any potential confrontations (if you can) is timely and concise for anyone of Trayvon's age to take as a lesson, regardless of the specific details of this trial. It's far too common to simply gun down some black kid, claim he made a threatening gesture, drop some reputation napalm and watch as the mother buries yet another son as society accepts it as all apart of 'the plan'. Until the social paradigm shifts, encounters with law enforcement as someone of color will always take on a level of tension not equal to their white peers and understanding that reality is the first step towards changing the situation.

No one is saying you can't fight to defend your rights as an American but there is a time and place for that and it isn't while you're being pulled over by a cop. A cop you know is itching to discharge a weapon because darkie made a sudden movement for a wallet. Of course I'm exaggerating some.

I think what you guys are getting at is actually the same point that he was getting at, except ronin doesn't seam to realize the larger implications.

If you're a black person, and you look at this case, what can you possibly tell your children, or even yourself? Even if you believe Zimmerman's story, it doesn't matter, at all. Because no matter who started it, what this case tells you is it's ok for someone to see you, think you're suspicious because you're black, get out of their car and track you down, and kill you. As long as you're no longer alive to tell your story, how you act doesn't matter. Everything you do has to be beyond perfect, with the assumption that you have to convince that person not to kill you. Even trying to defend yourself is just more evidence that he was ok to kill you.

It doesn't matter how that guy got you alone in the dark out of witnesses' sight, what matters is that you were black. Sorry, not cuz you were black, cuz you were "suspicious." And even though it's not cuz you were black, lemme justify profiling you based on being black real quick.

[Denchi]

Because no matter who started it, what this case tells you is it's ok for someone to see you, think you're suspicious because you're black, get out of their car and track you down, and kill you.

I realize that's a conclusion that a lot of people have come to, so I'm curious:

Does that conclusion only work if the assailant is white and the victim is black? It seems to me that the way our system of justice is set up, is that in the right circumstances, anyone could pursue someone, murder them, then claim self-defense. Obviously that would be difficult to do in a way that in no way implicates yourself as the aggressor, but it's possible. I don't necessarily see how race plays in a part in it, that's a fact for every American.

Sure, racial bias still exists in this world, but claiming that this was racially charged doesn't seem responsible or justifiable in any way, and stating that this verdict means trouble for colored children specifically seems narrow-sighted.

[Xajii]

I realize that's a conclusion that a lot of people have come to, so I'm curious:

Does that conclusion only work if the assailant is white and the victim is black? It seems to me that the way our system of justice is set up, is that in the right circumstances, anyone could pursue someone, murder them, then claim self-defense. Obviously that would be difficult to do in a way that in no way implicates yourself as the aggressor, but it's possible. I don't necessarily see how race plays in a part in it, that's a fact for every American.

Sure, racial bias still exists in this world, but claiming that this was racially charged doesn't seem responsible or justifiable in any way, and stating that this verdict means trouble for colored children specifically seems narrow-sighted.

Technically you're right that the system allows that in the right circumstances; the issue here where race is called into question is the fact that because these right circumstances involve a lot of guess work, the black kid sure as shit does not get the benefit of the doubt. Also, the assumption is made that he was considered suspicious due to his race.

Here's what changes IMO if Trayvon were a white kid:

1. Zimmerman doesn't walk away 6 hours after the shooting occurs; he is taken into custody
2. Zimmerman is painted as a Hispanic dude throughout the entire case
3. People are a lot more skeptical of the self-defense claim

I think one of the reasons the trial went the way it did was how the entire situation was built up in the first place. Dude was allowed to walk within hours of shooting someone dead. People weren't questioning his story. If that was a white kid, I do think it would have gone down differently at that stage. Now if all of the evidence is the same as it was in this trial and it was a white kid, would the verdict be the same? IDK, but with that jury, I'd actually say he'd be convicted