MLG Winter Championships 2012

[altwight]

Never understood why people thinking fighters should be an esport.

obligatory thinking mt etc

[Sho]

The dude in charge of MLG, forget his name, was on Cross Counter like two weeks ago and basically said the same thing to Gootecks. Something about there's someone in Capcom or someone influencing Capcom who doesn't want anything to do with MLG.

[MLG] Sundance.

The people influencing Capcom right now is Mr. Wizard & The Cannon Brothers (Tom "inkblot" Cannon, Tony "Ponder" Cannon). This I can assure you.

Also minor players have some pull with Capcom as well, such as Sp00ky, haunts, and even Jared (who's pulling to get Capcom games on IPL). Contrary to what most of us believed in Capcom being this old man, Japanese Zaibatsu company, they've really opened up their doors to influencing tournament play with their presence this year. That and they've probably wised up to the fact that it's free publicity for them and their games, one of the two.

Never understood why people thinking fighters should be an esport.

obligatory thinking mt etc

The whole eSports thing really only started in Korea for Starcraft and older Warcraft games. It's literally their national pastime now. It's America that wants to apply the term to every game here that's in a major gaming league. The FGC hates the term, and instead turned it into a meme.

[Vandole]

yoooooooooo espoooooooooooooooooorts

Spoiler: show

fuck mlg and fuck "esports" so yeah we're basically on the same page altwight kind of.

[geno]

It's just a term, I don't get why people get so mad at semantics. You can't say fuck e-sports and then support EVO or other FGC competitive events as if they aren't the same thing. I get that people hate labels, but I don't see how an expanding market for competitive gaming in pretty much any form could be anything but good long term.

[Sho]

Actually I agree it can be good, I was adversely against it initially. The way the major heads from MLG came out from no where proclaiming that we "need" MLG really didn't set it off correctly with the FGC (mainly Sir Scoot's rants). He talked it up as if the FGC is some type of ghetto cesspool of children and pre teens who don't want to grow up and "make it to the big leagues" when a vast majority of people within the FGC would love to see that happen, just on our own terms and via our own grassroots tournaments that are currently in place.

Another part of it is just general fear of how SC2 tournaments work, with it's "soulless looking" game play, and dry commentary-- two players inside sound proof boxes playing against each other. The FGC is literally used to being right next to their fav players and friends as they play and getting hype as the go along (and/or rowdy). Don't get me wrong however, I know SC2 tournaments can get pretty hype too, but it's tame compared to a live fighter tournament.

It's been a passionate debate for the last few months, starting in October ish.

[Correction]

Another part of it is just general fear of how SC2 tournaments work, with it's "soulless looking" game play, and dry commentary-- two players inside sound proof boxes playing against each other. The FGC is literally used to being right next to their fav players and friends as they play and getting hype as the go along (and/or rowdy). Don't get me wrong however, I know SC2 tournaments can get pretty hype too, but it's tame compared to a live fighter tournament.

Did someone seriously suggest soundproofed booths for fighting game tournaments? Even SBO doesn't do that.

[Sho]

Did someone seriously suggest soundproofed booths for fighting game tournaments? Even SBO doesn't do that.

Ahh sorry, I was simply depicting how SC2 tournaments work. They are placed in sound proof boxes with noise cancelers on while they play. Alarmists within the FGC caught onto it and had a field day with it.

[geno]

I seriously doubt you guys have anything to worry about there with the booth thing. MLG actually traditionally has never had soundproof booths, it was only after a lot of complaints and requests from the community when SC2 was added to their roster that they added them. So they aren't so much a staple of MLG as they are of the RTS scene (where the players have to deal with imperfect information), and are actually more a sign of how MLG has been fairly accommodating.

I find this whole situation really interesting, because the FGC is in a very similar situation to what SC2 was in a little over a year ago, at least with regards to MLG. MLG is trying to absorb an audience by adding a completely new genre for them that has already stepped up and been doing its own thing it's own way. In the case of SC2, MLG really fucked up at the start with a lot of key things missing (including booths, terrible formats, and really poor streaming), but they've improved pretty dramatically with every subsequent event. They still have some quirks from their days as a console FPS only tournament that they blindly carried over to SC2 at the start and have since refused to kill despite the community really disliking them (mainly extended series), but overall they've done more good than bad for the SC2 scene in NA I'd say.

As for the hype levels, I'm not 100% sure I'd agree. Fighters are very fast paced, so you get some pretty frequent climactic moments, while SC2 games are more drawn out and you have a lot more quiet build-up during the game. But from experience watching streams and watching live, I'd say the 'highs' are often just as big and sometimes bigger. Blizzcon last year was one of the most intense things I've ever seen, 10k+ people all screaming extremely loud, and chanting the player's IDs was pretty deafening.

[Jefe]

Eh.

[Viq]

The whole eSports thing really only started in Korea for Starcraft and older Warcraft games. It's literally their national pastime now.

Shit like this is hilarious.

[Sho]

I seriously doubt you guys have anything to worry about there with the booth thing. MLG actually traditionally has never had soundproof booths, it was only after a lot of complaints and requests from the community when SC2 was added to their roster that they added them. So they aren't so much a staple of MLG as they are of the RTS scene (where the players have to deal with imperfect information), and are actually more a sign of how MLG has been fairly accommodating.

I find this whole situation really interesting, because the FGC is in a very similar situation to what SC2 was in a little over a year ago, at least with regards to MLG. MLG is trying to absorb an audience by adding a completely new genre for them that has already stepped up and been doing its own thing it's own way. In the case of SC2, MLG really fucked up at the start with a lot of key things missing (including booths, terrible formats, and really poor streaming), but they've improved pretty dramatically with every subsequent event. They still have some quirks from their days as a console FPS only tournament that they blindly carried over to SC2 at the start and have since refused to kill despite the community really disliking them (mainly extended series), but overall they've done more good than bad for the SC2 scene in NA I'd say.

As for the hype levels, I'm not 100% sure I'd agree. Fighters are very fast paced, so you get some pretty frequent climactic moments, while SC2 games are more drawn out and you have a lot more quiet build-up during the game. But from experience watching streams and watching live, I'd say the 'highs' are often just as big and sometimes bigger. Blizzcon last year was one of the most intense things I've ever seen, 10k+ people all screaming extremely loud, and chanting the player's IDs was pretty deafening.

I can agree with all of that! I do want to go to a Blizzcon one of these days to watch SC2 matches.

Shit like this is hilarious.

Not trying to mock South Korea or anything-- I know they have soccer and baseball too. Those niggas love some Starcraft however.

[Pikarya]

If anyone is going to MLG Columbus tomorrow. Be sure to hit me up IM, me and a few other BGers are going for the weekend so we can meet up and play some n64/natty lite.

[Blarg]

you need a booth in sc2 because information is hidden to your opponents so if the announcers tell the crowd about an incoming surprise attack you don't want the opponent to overhear that. I don't watch fighters but I don't think this is an issue since you are both seeing the exact same thing on the screen so there is no need for a booth.

[Maguspk]

I love how people think growing the fighting game scene will somehow kill it, as if the same people who compete now won't be the same people competing at an MLG. Are people that skeptical about their own scenes that they think having one other tournament will ruin every other one that exists? If anything it grows the audience and makes the entire process more lucrative for everyone involved.

It's also hilarious that people think MLG wasn't a grassroots thing and didn't slowly grow into what it is today, with sponsors and larger venues.

[Jefe]

I don't think anybody mentioned how growing would be detrimental to the community. Rather, once they join/start competing in those 'leagues,' there would probably enforce some rules that would change it to something else. I don't think it would be AS FUCKING ELECTRIFYING!

[Deftscythe]

there would probably enforce some rules that would change it to something else

That's a pretty speculative statement there. I feel like a lot of the concerns I see from the FGC regarding this issue are like that too. They're afraid SOMETHING is going to happen. They aren't sure what it will be, but they're sure it's going to ruin everything.

What MLG wants is to pay players a few weekends a year to play the games they love to play and to bring in an audience they don't normally get. Players win and if the fans like what they see, they come back for the next event and MLG wins. The second part is the key. MLG knows that the FGC is different than the fans of their other games, and that they want a different experience. I'm assuming MLG is going to do whatever they can to deliver that experience or something close to it.
If MLG succeeds in delivering the hype this weekend, everybody wins, MLG and the players get paid and fans get a good show this weekend and maybe many more weekends in the future. If MLG fails, only MLG loses, players still get paid and fans can just turn it off and laugh about how bad it was. MLG will probably try one more time win or lose, but two fails in a row will probably convince them fighters aren't a good investment right now.

Now, personally, I don't think the FGC and all the hype exists in some magic bubble where one touch from an "eSport league" ruins everything forever. Either MLG does it's job and is seen as another major, or it doesn't and both it and the FGC go back to normal.

[Gryffes]

Come for the fighting games, stay for the starcraft 2. :D

[The Blackrose]

While I think they're going to keep Mortal Kombat, I seriously hope MLG will not be using this event as a gauge of whether or not to keep SC5 and KOF. Going up against an EVO major the same weekend needs to be taken into account.

[Sho]

KOFXIII: Great game, terrible MLG experience. Pretty much forcasted for the rest of the weekend. I'll tune into NCR instead. However, this topic is still relevant. :3

P.S.: FGC's fears were all basically confirmed. The format is terrible and SC2 esque, the commercials are/were SC2 esque, and the pre/post match "interviews" are bland, contrite and stupid. MLG can run it back and turn it into something great, but it's not a one day thing they think is gonna be successful by bullshitting SC2 type setups. My advice to them would be to send some cronies to any of the various weeklies and majors so they can see how it REALLY works.

P.P.S: Bala is that nigga, GO BALA!

[Correction]

Can you elaborate for those who didn't pay for the stream? Just saying it's the FGC's worst nightmare doesn't quite cut it.