Random Question Thread XXVI: The Rise and Fall of the RQT

**Plow** · 2012-05-14 03:47

Does Shijin Spiral have the ftp applied to all hits like some of the others? Or do all of the new ones?

**Neisan** · 2012-05-14 05:46

Originally Posted by Plow

Does Shijin Spiral have the ftp applied to all hits like some of the others? Or do all of the new ones?

Shijin no, the rest are listed on wiki, which is Resolution, Blade: Shun, Ruinator, Requiescat, Realmrazer, Last Stand, Entropy and Stardiver

**noodles355** · 2012-05-14 08:21

Originally Posted by Churchill

I'm sorry are you advocating not shooting adaman bullets?

Where did anyone mention adaman bullets?

Originally Posted by dasva

I think he is making a build that assumes 1 proc between ws. So if he had that 50% chance to recycle on a 5 hit build there would be only a 6.25% chance that you wouldn't get at least 1 proc messing up your build. There is also a pretty high chance to get at least 2 which might knock a hit off that build

How would it knock a hit off a build if the recycle proc gives you 5TP and you need 20-22ish TP per hit?

@DarkMagi's posts (too lazy to quote):

The first set you post has 36STP in gear (Oneiros over Goading), for 22.5TP/shot. "WS in anything" I'll take as zero STP on WS for this (16.6TP).
WS + 4 hits + 1 recycle proc = 16.6+22.5+22.5+22.5+22.5+5 = 111.6TP.
WS + 3 hits + 2 recycle procs = 94.1.
WS + 3 hits + 3 recycle procs = 99.1

The only time that set will save you a hit is if every shot has a recycle proc and you land both hits of Last Stand (11.8% chance if I remember high school maths). Every other time you'll over TP. I'm unconvinced it's worth the trade offs for STP you're making. You lose Snapshot on the Waist+Hands (if you macro it in precast and STP midcast, and get a rapid shot proc, you're boned). The alternative being not building around a recycle proc at all and needing 26STP instead of 36STP.

**Churchill** · 2012-05-14 08:51

No one has enough gil to not be saving half of their extremely expensive bullets for an epeen WS once every 10mins.

que

**dasva** · 2012-05-14 12:01

Can rng af3 set bonus proc on barrage?

**Darkmagi** · 2012-05-14 12:01

How was that implying that you shouldn't use adaman bullets? I'm saying that recycle is more important to an average player due to gil saved than an epeen WS once every 10min. Preshot snapshot gear and deal with it if you get rapid shot procs, you're vastly overrating the value of a true hit build. Going out, but I'll double check math on those sets when I'm back.

**Provolone** · 2012-05-14 14:39

Trying to get moglification from my culinarian's stall, and it's not showing up when I set it. I'm guessing I need to remove some things from layout, but as far as what to move, I'm lost. I only have statues/a few bahut/nation flags up.

**Yugl** · 2012-05-14 14:49

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Moghancements

**Radec** · 2012-05-14 14:50

Originally Posted by Provolone

Trying to get moglification from my culinarian's stall, and it's not showing up when I set it. I'm guessing I need to remove some things from layout, but as far as what to move, I'm lost. I only have statues/a few bahut/nation flags up.

What enhancement is showing? Wiki that enhancement and see what it boosting it, and remove anything with 11+ aura strength

**noodles355** · 2012-05-14 15:03

I'm unsure if several points in Darkmagi's last post were directed at me, I'm 99% sure we both agree on a lot of issues, mainly involving gil not being an issue. "If shit's too expensive, find another job".

I agree with Recycle being viable option to the average player. Merits + Hat = 50% Recycle rate which will save you a decent amount of gil. However, with gil not being a variable to consider (which applies to most BG posters) I struggle to see the argument for recycle+AF2+2 hat.
I am more than willing to be proven wrong, as any BG poster knows: when I ask questions, it's to further my understanding and learning, not to disagree and yell at people about how wrong they are.

To be 100% honest, ranger's make very little trade offs for STP (mainly due to no haste and the lack of snapshot gear) and it would not surprise me if a set with AF2+2 hat and a few STP trade offs with the goal of "if X many rapid shot procs happen, you will gain a hit, if not, the losses in gear are minimal" were optimal. I'm more curious in evolving this discussion to find what is the most effective way to go about ranger gear (especially for a 582 delay gun) is. To find out where that trade off, where a chance proc saves a shot to 100%TP, makes a difference.

Blah blah intaweb disclaimer: want to learn and evolve, not want start arguments.

**Darkmagi** · 2012-05-14 15:22

First set was a derp on my part, sorry. Would need to add in a significant amount of STP gear to fix that set, but doable. I'm not entirely sure if you can make full use of that hat with a single wield fencer build, but I'll look into it. Also despite gil being so easy to get, it obviously never hurts to have more. If you can build a set around +2 hat that is beneficial(or not affecting your damage enough to be noticeable), I think it would be ideal for most players.

Sorry for jumping to conclusions so quickly without having done the math, but my view still stands that you should be able to make a build around the hat for most weapon delays. Just really a preference based thing at that point though, as it's not going to have a major impact on your damage either way. One will be for gil saving, one will be for epeen.

**Provolone** · 2012-05-14 15:41

Ok, thanks Yugs. I fixed it, and now I have another. Is the +skill from stall only active while in your mog house?

**Yugl** · 2012-05-14 15:44

Ya, should see Moghancement or Moglification: Craft blah blah.

**dasva** · 2012-05-14 17:23

I'd disagree saying most people here money is nothing. I mean it isn't a small amount we are talking. We are talking about saving over 100k for a set of VW fights

**Darkmagi** · 2012-05-14 17:25

Yes, and the damage increase you would gain from flashy shot is pretty damn insignificant due to the 10min timer.

**Sady** · 2012-05-14 18:37

So I guess I need to call SE to get them to unlink my broken security token, does anyone know wtf the phone number is?

I've been searching the stupid useless Suport Center website for a while now but can't seem to find it... I know it's in there somewhere because I found it the other day but didn't think to write it down. Sorry, just getting frustrated...

**Radec** · 2012-05-14 18:43

Originally Posted by Sady

So I guess I need to call SE to get them to unlink my broken security token, does anyone know wtf the phone number is?

I've been searching the stupid useless Suport Center website for a while now but can't seem to find it... I know it's in there somewhere because I found it the other day but didn't think to write it down. Sorry, just getting frustrated...

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/870...=1#post3386012 5th post in that thread, don't necro it though etc etc

**noodles355** · 2012-05-14 19:17

Originally Posted by dasva

I'd disagree saying most people here money is nothing. I mean it isn't a small amount we are talking. We are talking about saving over 100k for a set of VW fights

= getting one HMP instead of none per round of VW.

To be honest, I had underestimated just how much Recycle we're talking (50% with hat and 5 merits) however, I do still stand by the point that for most hardcore BG posters, the gil shouldn't be an issue. But then this is directed at people either having, working on, having multiple, or working on multiple relics/mythics/95 empys.

One of the things I enjoy about ranger is that with so few players (compared to say war or mnk) equipment discussions are limited and the few times they come up they are actually interesting and not just "adaberk + xyz wins".
I would actually be very keen to discuss and find an optimum build for ranger, and as opposed as I might have appeared to it using Recycle, I think there could well be a TP option that over-TPs, but occasionally saves a hit to 100%TP via recycle that could beat out any non-recycle build, and I think the next step should be to find it. I don't think it's viable with a 4hit, but with a 5hit it should be. One of ranger's big benefits is it's access to a huge amount of STP gear without sacrificing a great deal. I'm on the old/spare laptop at the moment which doesn't have my RNG spellcast on so I can't give current sets for comparison off the cuff, but I would still love to explore this.

**Plow** · 2012-05-14 19:31

Originally Posted by Provolone

Trying to get moglification from my culinarian's stall, and it's not showing up when I set it. I'm guessing I need to remove some things from layout, but as far as what to move, I'm lost. I only have statues/a few bahut/nation flags up.

Already been solved, but just for future reference, the nation flags will overwrite damn near anything. I've been running maxed fire for years and I can still pop any nation flag in and barely have to change anything if at all to make it work.

**Fereydoon** · 2012-05-14 20:35

Would Thaumas body or legs beat out AF3+2 for TP for MNK?

Or better question: Current best TP set for MNK?

Thread: Random Question Thread XXVI: The Rise and Fall of the RQT

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