Random Fail: First World Problems

[Ksandra]

Also, suggests highly that you failed to yield the right of way.

wat


bus was way far back, motorcycle was even farther back with no signal he was going into the carpool lane. Bus had no issue with me getting infront of it, guy came in between us afterwards and couldn't handle the change in speed since he was going faster than the traffic since it was allowed. ( I cannot go faster than the car in front of me).

If he had been going at the speed of traffic he wouldn't have had to deal with the difference in speed when going into the carpool lane


In no way shape or form was it my fault. Nice try though.

[FNH]

I did. The accident was caused by his excessive speed and his lack of paying attention, not his lane splitting. But you wanted to blame it on that.

If she were in the center of the carpool lane, I find it hard to believe he "swerved right into her bumper".

[FNH]

wat


bus was way far back, motorcycle was even farther back with no signal he was going into the carpool lane. Bus had no issue with me getting infront of it, guy came in between us afterwards and couldn't handle the change in speed since he was going faster than the traffic since it was allowed.


In no way shape or form was it my fault. Nice try though.

If there was plenty of space there wouldn't have been an accident. I'd like to see what the accident reports says when it gets completed.

[Ksandra]

If she were in the center of the carpool lane, I find it hard to believe he "swerved right into her bumper".

two witnesses verified he hit me in the lane, (they had pulled over when they saw what happened to make sure the guy and I were ok).

[Zeb]

If she were in the center of the carpool lane, I find it hard to believe he "swerved right into her bumper".

I don't. Bikers can be just as retarded as cagers.

[FNH]

two witnesses verified he hit me in the lane, (they had pulled over when they saw what happened to make sure the guy and I were ok).

Of course he collided with you lol, but that doesn't always determine fault especially in instance or yielding ROW. What did the officer and your insurance say?

[FNH]

I don't. Bikers can be just as retarded as cagers.

Something major has to happen to cause the change in trajectory.

[Ksandra]

Of course he collided with you lol, but that doesn't always determine fault especially in instance or yielding ROW. What did the officer and your insurance say?

Officer refused to say because he said he won't until the report is filed (I didn't bitch, he was really nice about everything). Insurance says I am not at fault and that I am to take it up with the guy's insurance (have to wait for the report for the info, I did not talk to the guy at all) and if that company gives me any issue to call back Geico and they would handle everything.

[Ksandra]

Something major has to happen to cause the change in trajectory.

the major change was that he was going full speed while everyone is slow, he moved into the carpool lane and didn't account for the fact traffic had already built up there too and we weren't going as fast as he expected.

[FNH]

Officer refused to say because he said he won't until the report is filed (I didn't bitch, he was really nice about everything).

Please post when he completes it.

[Ksandra]

Relevant about the new "memo" I was talking about:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news.../13/281138.htm

The California Highway Patrol and other statewide traffic safety groups have created a set of written guidelines on motorcycle “lane-splitting,” the at-times hair-splitting maneuver that allows riders to legally pass vehicles in adjacent lanes by driving between them.

While California is the only state in the country that allows lane-splitting, there had not been written guidelines on how to safely execute the polarizing practice that often pits motorcycles against cars and trucks, the Sacramento Bee reported.


The guidelines set by the groups including the CHP, the Department of Motor Vehicles and Office of Traffic Safety, say motorcyclists can ride between two cars if there is room, but only at speeds no more than 10 miles-per-hour faster than the vehicles they’re passing. The rules also say that motorcyclists should not attempt the move at full freeway speeds, or in any traffic going faster than 30 mph.

“There is a need to acknowledge lane-splitting is being done in California, and a need to help people understand what is reasonable,” California Highway Patrol Sgt. Mark Pope said. “Until now, no one in authority has said how to do it safely.”

The guidelines come as the number of motorcyclists in California have risen, as well as the number of motorcycle crashes. CHP numbers show that more than 9,600 people in California were injured in motorcycle crashes in 2010, the most recent statistics available – up 25 percent since 2000.

“We are trying to get people to slow down,” Pope said. “A lot are traveling at 40 mph or faster. The faster you go, the harder it is to stop.”

Pope said the guidelines do not reflect any changes in the policy. The CHP has long held that lane-splitting is a legal, common practice in California because nothing in the state Vehicle Code specifically prohibits it.

About 87 percent of California motorcycle riders reported they lane-split, a recent state Office of Traffic Safety survey reported. Some motorcyclists call it lane sharing. The survey also found that only 53 percent of California drivers knew lane-splitting is legal, and seven percent of drivers say they have attempted to block a lane-splitting motorcyclist from passing them.

Pete terHorst, spokesman for the American Motorcyclist Association, said the new California guidelines could be used by motorcycle advocates in other states to push legalizing lane-splitting elsewhere. But terHorst said advocates nationally typically focus on other motorcycling issues, including broader concerns about causes of crashes.

“We essentially endorse the California position, but we don’t promote it in other states,” terHorst said.

Meanwhile, other states prohibit lane-splitting, such as Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Arizona, the newspaper states. Other states consider the practice unauthorized, according to the American Motorcyclist Association’s national cycling rules database.

But Gabe Ets-Hokin, editor of Oakland-based CityBike magazine, said while he appreciates the state’s attempt to make a statement about the practice, he worries it could be a first step toward more restrictions.

“Lane-splitting is a unique lifestyle to California motorcyclists, a subculture,” Ets-Hokin said. “If we can do it safely, what is the problem?”

No doubt in my mind guy was going more than 10 miles the speed of traffic.

[Melena]

While I don't have issues with lane splitting, the sad fact is too many people will lane split at more then double the speed of what current traffic is moving. I've given up counting how many times i'm in a ten-fifteen mph crawl and some guy goes flying by at 40+ miles per hour. Most gruesome accident I saw was from a lane splitter. Was a teacher rushing to school, was lane splitting at 55+mph when traffic was moving at about 25, clipped a truck, hit another car. In the end his bike was about 150 feet from where the body came to a stop. His left arm was completely detached, his head which was still in his helmet was 90% detached.

[Kohan]

The accident was caused by his excessive speed and his lack of paying attention, not his lane splitting. But you wanted to blame it on that.

This is really what it comes down to.

There's nothing wrong with lane sharing. There is something wrong with poor drivers.

To address something brought up earlier, the reason California is the only state in the US to allow lane sharing is because it's progressive, not because it's backward. If we want to improve drivers throughout our country, this isn't what we need to demonize.

[Ksandra]

This is really what it comes down to.

There's nothing wrong with lane sharing. There is something wrong with poor drivers.

To address something brought up earlier, the reason California is the only state in the US to allow lane sharing is because it's progressive, not because it's backward. If we want to improve drivers throughout our country, this isn't what we need to demonize.

I don't think you can really call it progressive when this year they put guidelines on it, and the history isn't about them legalizing it, so much as never putting the law into place. (in other words it was never illegal, then made legal in california, so it's only become more restrictive).

Also, lolwiki I know, but it does show how some of the statistics on lane-sharing are skewed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

There is no safety research in the United States which has directly examined the question of lane splitting, in spite of the opportunity to compare similar populations of riders in the US who lane split in California but do not (legally) do so elsewhere. The European MAIDS report studied the causes of motorcycle accidents in four countries where it is legal and one where it is not, yet reached no conclusion as to whether it contributed to or prevented accidents.[4]

Proponents of lane splitting state the Hurt Report of 1981 reached the conclusion that lane splitting improves motorcycle safety by reducing rear end crashes.[22] Lane splitting supporters also state that the US DOT FARS database shows that fatalities from rear end collisions into motorcycles are 30% lower in California than in Florida or Texas, states with similar riding seasons and populations but which do not lane split.[31] No specifics are given about where this conclusion is found in the FARS system. The database is available online to the public.[32] The NHSTA does say, based on the Hurt Report, that lane splitting "slightly reduces" rear-end accidents, and is worthy of further study due to the possible congestion reduction benefits.[2]

Lane splitting is never mentioned anywhere in the Hurt Report, and all of the data was collected in California, so no comparison was made between of lane splitting vs. non-lane splitting. The Hurt Report ends with a list of 55 specific findings, such as "Fuel system leaks and spills are present in 62% of the motorcycle accidents in the post-crash phase. This represents an undue hazard for fire." None of these findings mentions lane splitting, or rear end collisions. The legislative and law enforcement advice that follows this list does not mention lane splitting or suggest laws be changed with regard to lane splitting.

In Europe, the MAIDS Report was conducted using Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) standards in 1999–2000 and collected data on over 900 motorcycle accidents in five countries, along with non-accident exposure data (control cases) to measure the contribution of different factors to accidents, in the same way as the Hurt Report. Four of the five countries where data was collected allow lane splitting, while one does not, yet none of the conclusions contained in the MAIDS Final Report note any difference in rear-end accidents or accidents during lane splitting. It is notable that the pre-crash motion of the motorcycle or scooter was lane-splitting in only 0.4% of cases, in contrast to the more common accident situations such as "Moving in a straight line, constant speed" 49.1% and "Negotiating a bend, constant speed" 12.1%. The motorcyclist was stopped in traffic prior to 2.8% of the accidents.[4]

Preliminary results from a study in the United Kingdom, conducted by the University of Nottingham for the Department for Transport, show that filtering is responsible for around 5% of motorcycle Killed or Seriously Injured (KSI) accidents.[33] It also found that in these KSI cases the motorist is twice as likely to be at fault as the motorcyclist due to motorists "failing to take into account possible motorcycle riding strategies in heavy traffic".[33]

I am not going to split hairs, just that I think that both proponents and opponents probably are taking these studies to mean what they want it to mean vs. what they actually say, and should be taken with a grain of salt.


[edit] also on the progressive bit:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...splitting-law/

No sooner did the California Highway Patrol attempt to demistify its rulebook for lane-splitting in the Golden State, then did California State Senate Bill 350 get drafted and put on the state’s voting docket. A piece of legislation put forth by Sen. Jim Beall (D-San Jose), S.B. 350 would have put greater restrictions on motorcyclists’ ability to lane-split on Californian highways.

Introduced on February 20th, Senator Beall’s proposed law would have made lane-splitting legal in only certain circumstances: on divided highways with three or more lanes of travel in the same direction, only when traffic is congested, and only at “a safe” speed.

For the time being Californian motorcyclists have dodged a possible bullet, as Senator Beall has since abandoned the proposed piece of legislature. However, Senator Beall’s office said it would reconsider proposing the lane-splitting regulations once the results of UC Berkeley’s safety study have been published.

As I have written before, if there was a single issue that the AMA should be pushing for on the legislative end of its programs, it should be the adoption of pro lane-splitting laws in every state, which makes California’s pro lane-splitting stance a venerable example to use in that debate.

A notable benefit for traveling via two-wheels in California, Europe, and just about everywhere else except the other 49 states of the Union, the ability to flow through congested traffic and stopped vehicle queues is a credible value-added reason to own a motorcycle.

While scrapped for the time being, it definitely looks like it is still on the senator's plate.


[edit]sorry lots of edits:

While I don't have issues with lane splitting, the sad fact is too many people will lane split at more then double the speed of what current traffic is moving. I've given up counting how many times i'm in a ten-fifteen mph crawl and some guy goes flying by at 40+ miles per hour. Most gruesome accident I saw was from a lane splitter. Was a teacher rushing to school, was lane splitting at 55+mph when traffic was moving at about 25, clipped a truck, hit another car. In the end his bike was about 150 feet from where the body came to a stop. His left arm was completely detached, his head which was still in his helmet was 90% detached.

Ultimately, I agree with melena. I don't think lane-splitting would bother me so much if those doing it, are doing it during stop and go traffic at a very low speed. I have spent a very limited time out of the country, but in instances where I've been in lane-splitting situations outside, the cyclists were probably going about 35~ mph max. In stop and go, that's still a nice thing for them, but it's at such a slow speed, the chances of an accident is severely reduce. This could be why it is beneficial in other countries, though as I said my experience is limited.

This has not been my experience on California highways at all. Usually, during slow traffic that is >30, the cyclists are still going 60+. The huge jump in difference is startling, and I consider extremely unsafe, and quite frankly, severely unnecessary.

[Acevalefor]

FNH just can't fathom the idea that riders can be blind idiots too. I ride every weekday to and from work and longer rides on the weekends. I can say with certainty that my behavior on my bike is a huge factor when considering safety on the road. Just because I have the horsepower to go from 60 to 90 in 3 seconds doesn't mean I need to fly by, on the right, the slow driver in the left lane at that speed. Add lane splitting into that equation and suddenly it is the rider being irresponsible traveling at a much higher speed than the rest of traffic.

There are several other reasons that riders are just as, if not more, responsible for safety on roadways. You stand an exponentially higher risk of injury even in the most minor of collisions. You are smaller and harder to see. If you are lane splitting, you are passing through 2 blind spots for every car that you ride by. There are more, but I am rambling and it's late.

[Kohan]

I don't think you can really call it progressive when this year they put guidelines on it, and the history isn't about them legalizing it, so much as never putting the law into place. (in other words it was never illegal, then made legal in california, so it's only become more restrictive).

I was aware of this, but I've read a lot about lane sharing.

Ultimately, I agree with melena. I don't think lane-splitting would bother me so much if those doing it, are doing it during stop and go traffic at a very low speed.

That's one of the main times when you're supposed to do it.

http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

The issue isn't lane sharing itself so much as it is bad bikers.

[Brill Weave]

Jesus FNH you're acting as if when we ride we're completely off the hook for any wrong doing. Shit doesn't work that way lol. Lane splitting is fantastic if you're a rider that drives responsibly. If you're a fucktard who uses it to ride at higher than posted speeds, assuming everyone sees you and will stop so you can zip around, well then that's on you. Fuck, if anything I drive slower when I'm splitting just because of people not seeing me and merging. Let's be honest. For every responsible rider out there there's an asshole who's trying to pull a stoppie in traffic trying to look cool. If dude wasn't able to stop in time I have no problem believing he was going over the speed limit. He's not exempt from following traffic laws. If he were going the speed limit he would have had ample time to stop and avoid an accident.

Long story short, just because you're splitting doesn't mean you get to break speed limits and be a hazard to everyone else. Laws still apply to you.

[Seraph]

Are ice cream trucks wider than carpool lanes out in CA?

[FNH]

Jesus FNH you're acting as if when we ride we're completely off the hook for any wrong doing. Shit doesn't work that way lol. Lane splitting is fantastic if you're a rider that drives responsibly. If you're a fucktard who uses it to ride at higher than posted speeds, assuming everyone sees you and will stop so you can zip around, well then that's on you. Fuck, if anything I drive slower when I'm splitting just because of people not seeing me and merging. Let's be honest. For every responsible rider out there there's an asshole who's trying to pull a stoppie in traffic trying to look cool. If dude wasn't able to stop in time I have no problem believing he was going over the speed limit. He's not exempt from following traffic laws. If he were going the speed limit he would have had ample time to stop and avoid an accident.

Long story short, just because you're splitting doesn't mean you get to break speed limits and be a hazard to everyone else. Laws still apply to you.

That's not it at all, I am quite aware of the squids out there that should be taking the bus. My posts were more about how lane sharing wasn't a bad thing, which were more eloquently posted by Kohan. Also, there was a dash of prodding to Ksandra because it never fails that a post-accident recap will always suggest that the poster did everything by the book and the other driver did everything wrong.

[Brill Weave]

That's not it at all, I am quite aware of the squids out there that should be taking the bus. My posts were more about how lane sharing wasn't a bad thing, which were more eloquently posted by Kohan. Also, there was a dash of prodding to Ksandra because it never fails that a post-accident recap will always suggest that the poster did everything by the book and the other driver did everything wrong.

Oh I agree. Lane sharing is a good thing and a necessary thing for riders. But, we have no reason to doubt what Ksan is saying. We also have no reason to believe her though lol. I'm basing my comments on the information that was provided by her, accurate or no. The way you were coming across was kind of white knighty