Ms. Universe Canada contestant kicked for being born a boy

[Kohan]

Not really interested in the political correctness

That's good, because I'm not either. I prefer facts to pleasantries.

Alleya already expanded as I wished to, and before that, I posted a thorough explanation that's based on the actual definitions of the terms, which touched on identity and biology, appropriately.

If anyone wishes to deny the validity of that, it's fine—so long as they're also willing to accept that they're bigoted.

[pohibaba]

From a marketing standpoint, they really did make a horrible decision. After finding out, they should've feigned ignorance and then rig it so she wouldn't win.

[Ashmada]

I could just be like "oh hey, I identify with being female. I'm trapped in the wrong body. Sure wish I could afford hormones, maybe I'll buy some with the prize money. I'm gonna join the female's weight lifting competition"

Getting a sex change is a pretty extreme way of faking it, I'd say.

[Senji]

She does not pass at all if you hear her voice. I can't imagine how she kept it a secret unless she also lied about being a mute.

Considering she entered transgender pageants, it never actually was a secret. She just entered this one against the rules and they didn't check until they were most likely tipped off.

[Denchi]

I don't think I'm sexually attracted to a woman who used to be a dude.

That's not what the pageant is about though, right?

[thetruepandagod]

Is there a consensus among BG people as to what point exactly a person born as a man can qualify as being called a woman?

Also why is thailand so much more accepting of transgendered than america? Is it just because we are a more puritan society or something else?

unrelated video i just felt like posting :50-1:10

[Yugl]

A "got talent" contest is a bit different than a Ms.Country contest is the more reasonable explanation.

Edit: Also, there's little physiological difference with us Asians aside from belt region features.

[Senji]

They do for the olympics yes?

It has to be a certain number of years since you completed SRS, and you cannot be taking any drugs ie testosterone. They are very heavy on testing, and your hormone levels have to be within what they deem natural levels.

[Sera]

Why use fake genitalia to define the gender, when DNA is what truly determine it..

Are YOU going to give a DNA test to each beauty "queen"? Come on. It is a beauty contest, and she's prettier than ALL of the natural born women, EVEN THE ONES who have had plastic surgery to make themselves "more beautiful." I agree with whoever said they kicked her out because they were threatened and jealous. That is all it was.

[Psion]

Is there a consensus among BG people as to what point exactly a person born as a man can qualify as being called a woman?

Also why is thailand so much more accepting of transgendered than america? Is it just because we are a more puritan society or something else?

unrelated video i just felt like posting :50-1:10

I don't think there's a consensus, considering how diverse BG is and everyone's varying levels of sex exucation, gender identity being one of the things they teach in sex psychology. As for when a man can be called a woman, it's kind of a wrong question, since in reality, if a person identifies as female or male, they were always that to begin with, they just got born in the wrong body. A male to female transsexual, for instance, was always a female, they just got stuck in a male body at birth. The physical body should never take precedence over the persons mind when it comes to determining the persons gender.

So in response to:

I don't think I'm sexually attracted to a woman who used to be a dude.

That's not what the pageant is about though, right?

In reality, the woman was always a woman, they just changed their body to reflect who they were.

I guess for me, i wouldn't be that attracted to a pre-op male to female transsexual, even if they looked male, because i would know that they have a female mind inside, and being gay, i'm attracted to men. There might be some physical attraction, cause she'd look like a dude still, but i wouldn't be that interested in pursuing it. If it was the reverse, however, with a female to male transsexual, i might not be physically attracted if they were pre-op, but i'd still have a mental attraction instead, assuming they were someone i'd get along with. :D As for post op, it would be a little kinky i guess, but if they looked good i'd find them attractive like any other hot dude.

Things get a little confusing when you involve transsexuals because you have to deal with the fact that there's physical and mental attraction, and they can be separate things.

[Yugl]

Are YOU going to give a DNA test to each beauty "queen"? Come on.

Given that one of the available methods is saliva, yes.

[Sera]

Given that one of the available methods is saliva, yes.

I suppose if you're willing to spend the money on it. Seems like a waste to me. But hey, if Trump wants to drop cash on DNA tests for all his contestants, I guess he can do that. IMO if you're willing to get your twig & berries chopped off and made into a vagina, you're pretty committed to being a chick.

Again I think all the other women were just jealous. No beauty queen wants to think she's less attractive in a pageant than a girl who used to have a male body. Derp.

[Kaylia]

Are YOU going to give a DNA test to each beauty "queen"? Come on. It is a beauty contest, and she's prettier than ALL of the natural born women, EVEN THE ONES who have had plastic surgery to make themselves "more beautiful." I agree with whoever said they kicked her out because they were threatened and jealous. That is all it was.

You're stretching what I said.

If there is a fundamental difference between males and females that won't change despite the operation, why do you insist on using a word that has a different meaning? Using incorrect word to be "politically correct" is stupid.


Also, what would you say if Phelps chopped off his dick to attend next olympic as a woman? Would you hold the same position that he is a "woman" and has every right to be?

[Ksandra]

Are there still people in this thread who think that pic posted a few pages back were the Miss U contestants?

Don't get me wrong, the trans chick is hot, but seriously, there are a lot of fucking hot Miss U contestants. Idgaf if she competes or not as how she compares is irrelevant in the first place, just saying, I keep seeing people say "she's hotter than everyone else" because they were looking at the pic from a completely different contest.


http://www.missuniverse.com/members/contestants

[Sera]

You're stretching what I said.

If there is a fundamental difference between males and females that won't change despite the operation, why do you insist on using a word that has a different meaning? Using incorrect word to be "politically correct" is stupid.


Also, what would you say if Phelps chopped off his dick to attend next olympic as a woman? Would you hold the same position that he is a "woman" and has every right to be?

If he has a vagina and looks like a chick? Sure. This person LOOKS like a woman. Half the straight dudes in this thread just said "would beat." If they said that about Michael Phelps and he had a vagina? Yeah, go to it.

Also some info about reassignment surgeries. Again, any guy who OPTS to get this done? I'll call him a girl all day every day.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/SRS.html ---- VERY NSFW BTW (photos of post-op vagina)
http://youtu.be/Y1vKT4JEcDc ---- Video of a Male to Female Reassignment. Watch at your own risk. Very cool process though.

If you're only interested in seeing the final result I'd recommend just saving yourself the trauma and clicking on the website above instead.

[Sera]

Are there still people in this thread who think that pic posted a few pages back were the Miss U contestants?

Don't get me wrong, the trans chick is hot, but seriously, there are a lot of fucking hot Miss U contestants. Idgaf if she competes or not as how she compares is irrelevant in the first place, just saying, I keep seeing people say "she's hotter than everyone else" because they were looking at the pic from a completely different contest.


http://www.missuniverse.com/members/contestants

That's more like it. I don't think she'd have won, but I think she'd have at least taken out Albania, Bolivia, Cayman I, Croatia, DR, Egypt, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, India, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Lebanon, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Panama, Poland, Serbia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Ukraine and the USA.

[thetruepandagod]

All i learned from your links is that tranny vaginas are really shallow and i can never go balls deep in a ladyboy.

That's more like it. I don't think she'd have won, but I think she'd have at least taken out Albania, Bolivia, Cayman I, Croatia, DR, Egypt, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, India, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Lebanon, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Panama, Poland, Serbia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Ukraine and the USA.

NO

[Kaylia]

If he has a vagina and looks like a chick? Sure. This person LOOKS like a woman. Half the straight dudes in this thread just said "would beat." If they said that about Michael Phelps and he had a vagina? Yeah, go to it.

So, you're essentially okay with the idea that the XX chromosome pair could be eliminated from the olympics?

[Yugl]

I cannot help but ask why someone so supportive of the sciences would intentionally step-down to a less objective criteria on this issue. Where the standing rule is essentially genetic/original, the desired rule you wish to implement intentionally introduces ambiguity.

"Looks" like a woman:Who determines that? Other cultures have women that look like men.
Parts: Relic of an older era. The granted example of chopping off parts is quite demonstrative of this.
"Acts" or "Feels" like a woman: Again, culturally subjective. In some cases, quite sexist.

Edit: This post was @ Sera, not Kaylia.

[Jefe]

Also, what would you say if Phelps chopped off his dick to attend next olympic as a woman? Would you hold the same position that he is a "woman" and has every right to be?

There's a difference, but it's an irrelevant conclusion anyways. Phelps doesn't see himself as a woman trapped inside a man's body, and therefore he doesn't need to cut off his genitalia in the first place. In your scenario, Phelps' motive to remove his genitalia is to participate and potentially win the women's swimming competition. I won't get into the hormone levels for men and women and all that jazz for the Olympics. Anyway, their rules are their rules.

And last, all the participants are... let's say that's not a flattering picture. Specially w/ someone like this: