Ms. Universe Canada contestant kicked for being born a boy

**Sera** · 2012-03-30 01:01

Originally Posted by Yugl

I was under the impression that we were discussing methods for detection, not moral standards of practice. In this latter realm, I share the "Unimportant contest; therefore, their show and their rules" indifference towards this issue.

Oh sure, but call it what it is. Bitch made bullshit.

**Kaylia** · 2012-03-30 01:05

By your logic, Buck Angel is a woman. Stop being obtuse. You KNOW what I mean, you're just being nit-picky to get around my main point because it is correct, and you're being argumentative about bullshit because you can't attack my major point. I already know your schtick by now, and so does everyone else. So stop it. This is why people think you're dumb. You're not dumb, you become intentionally obtuse when you're LOSING.

Buck Angel is a woman...

I understand what you mean, but it is wrong. Male/Female definitions exist for a reason, and you're completely shitting on it.

If you want to continue this argument, write down your definition of male/females, and we will figure out after what they should be called.

**Sera** · 2012-03-30 01:09

So kaylia thinks that
NSFW

Spoiler: show

Shouldn't be allowed to compete as a man.
That looks like fucking dude muscles to me, man. And that's a tiny dong, but it is there. Sure, there's a vag still, but that is a GUY.

http://naijamayor.com/wp-content/upl...-Talackova.jpg
That is a woman. Would it be fair for that body to compete against Buck Angel in ... oh say, weight lifting?

No. Because more than just the genitalia changes. I was just commenting that changing your genitalia after going through all the rest of it shows that it is not just a whim or a phase. It is commitment to a change, commitment to an image of yourself.

She wasn't entering Miss U to trip up a bunch of natural born women, she was entering because SHE is a beautiful woman. She IS. NOW. It shouldn't matter what she WAS.

**Sera** · 2012-03-30 01:09

Originally Posted by Kaylia

Buck Angel is a woman...

I understand what you mean, but it is wrong. Male/Female definitions exist for a reason, and you're completely shitting on it.

If you want to continue this argument, write down your definition of male/females, and we will figure out after what they should be called.

Buck Angel is a FTM trans. He is a man. He has a vagina. But that is a dude.

**thetruepandagod** · 2012-03-30 01:14

What would someone be that identifies as the opposite sex mentally but does nothing in regards to transitioning physically?

**Kaylia** · 2012-03-30 01:14

I thought Buck Angel was a woman who wanted to look like a man, but kept the vag. Forgive me for not being up to date with my transgender porn.

And your argument is so fallacious. Yes, I think that, but gender/sex isn't a question of "look" or mutilated genitals, which is all you see in that picture.

**Psion** · 2012-03-30 01:26

Originally Posted by Kaylia

I thought Buck Angel was a woman who wanted to look like a man, but kept the vag. Forgive me for not being up to date with my transgender porn.

Most FTM transsexuals keep the vag, because it's a lot easier to build a vagina using the existing penis than it is to build a penis from scratch. bottom surgery for FTM transsexuals is very unsatisfying results, it won't achieve erection without using special stints, it doesn't have much feeling normally, and so on.

And in pretty much every story where people get changed to the opposite gender via magical means or w/e, it's referred to "a man stuck in a woman's body" or a "woman trapped in a mans body". said person doesn't get their body changed and go "oh hey, im a girl now!", they go "oh shit, wtf happened to me?" That should tell you something, that the mind and the body's sex can be two different things. If a person decides to change their body's gender, it's almost always because their mind was the opposite gender to begin with, not for shits and giggles. (the very few who don't fall into this category are either very very kinky, or are perhaps one of those people who's sexual identity falls outside the male/female spectrum. Yes, this is another possibility.)

Seriously kaylia, you need to take a sexual psychology class. They discuss things like this. you are in the wrong here, and you're clearly showing that by the way your using your pronouns when describing trassexual indiviiduals by their body's birth gender, not their sexual identity. The latter isn't something you can go out and change, but you can change the way your body looks and feels, and the hormones it produces. And what the mind feels should always take precedence over how the body looks as far as sexual identity goes.

**Sera** · 2012-03-30 01:26

Real quick, if no one knew that either one was trans, and Buck hit Jenna in public, who do you think everyone would jump on & restrain?

**Sera** · 2012-03-30 01:28

Originally Posted by Psion

Seriously kaylia, you need to take a sexual psychology class. They discuss things like this. you are in the wrong here, and you're clearly showing that by the way your using your pronouns when describing trassexual indiviiduals by their body's birth gender, not their sexual identity. The latter isn't something you can go out and change, but you can change the way your body looks and feels, and the hormones it produces.

This times a million. Kaylia, you are wrong. Deal.

**thetruepandagod** · 2012-03-30 01:29

Originally Posted by Sera

Real quick, if no one knew that either one was trans, and Buck hit Jenna in public, who do you think everyone would jump on & restrain?

The person doing the hitting.... Just like if a big man started hitting a small man. This is a retarded question and disappointing sera.

**Kaylia** · 2012-03-30 01:31

I can't be wrong since I'm convinced that I'm right, and it is all that matter according to you Sera.

**Sera** · 2012-03-30 01:35

Originally Posted by thetruepandagod

The person doing the hitting.... Just like if a big man started hitting a small man. This is a retarded question and disappointing sera.

I was mocking Kaylia's stupid/irrelevant dickless Michael Phelps scenario.
My point was mainly that if no one knew any better, they'd assume Buck was a man from birth and Jenna was a woman from birth.

She was competing with women because she is a woman. IS. Don't get why Kaylia is so caught up on the was.

**Kaylia** · 2012-03-30 01:41

Originally Posted by Sera

I was mocking Kaylia's stupid/irrelevant dickless Michael Phelps scenario.
My point was mainly that if no one knew any better, they'd assume Buck was a man from birth and Jenna was a woman from birth.

She was competing with women because she is a woman. IS. Don't get why Kaylia is so caught up on the was.

I just find your loose and unscientific definition hilarious.

If you want to define gender as the psychological identity of one person, I don't care, but it's irrelevant since what matter here is the genetic profiles and reproduction system. We can replace "gender" with "sex" everywhere in this thread to stay more in line with psychology jargon, but it doesn't change any of the issues we discussed.

**hey** · 2012-03-30 01:50

Kaylia, you should be friends with aduidarnenye. You'd get along really well.

**Jefe** · 2012-03-30 02:03

Kayla, gender != biological sex. Genetically/biologically, yes, he is a man.

**Kaylia** · 2012-03-30 02:11

Originally Posted by Jefe

Kayla, gender != biological sex. Genetically/biologically, yes, he is a man.

The definition of man and woman changed in 1990, when psychology started using that word?

Over the last few pages, the argument was made over the physical performance of man and woman, which obviously refer to the biological aspect of the thing, rather than the sexual identity. If that wasn't clear enough, I'm sorry.

**Churchill** · 2012-03-30 02:13

Would you males want to date and have sex with her if you knew it was a man beforehand?

**Psion** · 2012-03-30 02:14

Originally Posted by Kaylia

The definition of man/woman changed in 1990, when psychology started using that word?

YOU MEAN SCIENCE CAUSES THINGS TO HAVE FORMAL DEFINITIONS AND MAKES OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THINGS PROGRESS?

WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?

**Yugl** · 2012-03-30 02:15

Originally Posted by Kaylia

The definition of man and woman changed in 1990, when psychology started using that word?

Over the last few pages, the argument was made over the physical performance of man and woman, which obviously refer to the biological aspect of the thing, rather than the sexual identity.

Welcome to academia on this issue. I learned of this distinction within a course different from psychology, but that distinction apparently upholds there.

Sex = Physical features
Gender = Roughly behavior/identity

**Indeed** · 2012-03-30 02:17

Sure is legit transphobic in here.

Thread: Ms. Universe Canada contestant kicked for being born a boy

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