Georgia/Arizona push abortion law to 20 weeks

[Yuri-G]

I don't normally respond to blatant troll attempts, but consider this a freebie. Surprise, surprise! I actually have things to do other than sitting here all day posting on forums, and in the course of that, I missed her post. Thanks, come again.

yet you saw Pririan's below that and had enough time to delineate it and respond point by point. yeah, I don't buy it. thanks, come again!

[Ksandra]

Did I ever say the Bible didn't mention any of those things? If you guys are going to try and attack me, do it right and stop with the straw-man arguments, quote me for what I actually said and don't misconstrue it into something I didn't say. Also, NONE of those verses you posted show that you can attain salvation through works. That's what I called you out on, and you failed to defend yourself.

Wrong. I said Catholicism has good works as a framework. No where did I say I only expect salvation through strictly doing good works. Just it is a major part of our faith which you claimed that if I was doing so I couldn't be Catholic. You were the one that attacked my faith and claim I need to be prayed for for doing good works. I never said that's all we do.

I don't think you barely know anything about the Catholic faith, at least you are showing tons of ignorance towards it. Don't claim I can't have faith for the actions I choose when you don't even understand what being a Catholic is.

[Anakron]

It's like this:

Cold does not exist, it is the absence of Heat.

Darkness does not exist, is the absence of Light.

Evil is an absence of Good = Sin does not exist, it is the absence of Good.

Sin isn't a created thing, it's a lack of something, a void.

Neither of your analogies work, because heat and light are both quantifiable and subjective, whereas good and evil are absolute (according to your religion).

Further, something is "cold" because the amount of heat/energy it absorbs is not enough to raise its temperature enough so it remains "cold." If goodness is heat in your analogy, this means that God only had a finite amount of energy/heat (i.e. goodness), otherwise, nothing should ever be "cold." (based on your heat/cold analogy)

A similar reasoning applies for darkness and light. There can only be darkness when the source of light is finite. If God is omnipotent and everywhere, then there can be no darkness anywhere.

I hope you're not saying that God only had/has a finite amount of goodness, and didn't have enough to go around or purposely withheld it from some of us.

[Ksandra]

I love you, Ksandra.

I hate getting into these types of arguments. Especially Christian against Christian, that's not what we're supposed to be about. Though sometimes I gotta speak up because, shit, some people have to know you can have faith without being an ignorant judgmental fuckwad.

[Pirian]

You said that everything is black and white I said some things are, this reinforces nothing.

You said that it is black and white to god. Religion is meant to bring you closer to god. Thus, religion is suppose to make the world black and white.

Why doesn't the reason matter? What if there was a good reason? Like that the people being conquered were evil, through and through? As in, child sacrifice, Ritual prostitution, adult human sacrifice, all in the name of their god. It's not like these were a happy, peaceful people just minding their own business. They were, by most rational people's standards, evil. The children that were killed were saved from growing up in such an evil culture, and likely went to be with God anyway, if they were under the age of accountability.

The reason doesn't matter because god created it. God created the "people that were evil, through and through", so why did he make them that way? Why did he choose this specific plot of land? God is all-knowing, so he did foresee that people would inhabit this land, and that he would have to order his "chosen people" to commit genocide. This seems like an awful thing for god to do.

By the way, your god demanded child sacrifice (hello Abraham). Also, you just logic'd yourself into rationalizing killing children, so if you consider the things being aborted as children, then there is no problem here because they are saved from growing up in such an evil culture (with a mother that would have aborted if given the chance), and are likely going to be with god anyways once they are dead.

Again, it's impossible for God to sin because He would have to be separated from Himself.

Yes, I agree, and this is why it is illogical for your god to be "the god".

A failure based on what standard?

God created us to be in relationship with Him, that is our purpose in life. If someone does not choose that, they punish themselves. Being in relationship with God is what we are supposed to do, that is the way the world was created.

A failure because he created something imperfect, and has felt the need to interject in the lives of human because of these imperfections.

Also, that seems like a pretty selfish god, but I don't think you would necessarily disagree with this statement.

It's like a fish saying he doesn't believe in water and would rather live on land.

Actually, that happened and it's why we're here today (implying you believe in evolution)

You seem to be having difficulty understanding what I'm saying.

It's like this:

Cold does not exist, it is the absence of Heat.

Darkness does not exist, is the absence of Light.

Evil is an absence of Good = Sin does not exist, it is the absence of Good.

Sin isn't a created thing, it's a lack of something, a void.

No, you don't seem to be having a difficulty understanding what I'm saying.

If god created you then you are perfect, because god is perfect. If you are lacking "good" it is because you were not created perfectly. If you aren't perfect then the god that created you isn't perfect, either.

also:

Spoiler: show

Neither of your analogies work, because heat and light are both quantifiable and subjective, whereas good and evil are absolute (according to your religion).

Further, something is "cold" because the amount of heat/energy it absorbs is not enough to raise its temperature enough so it remains "cold." If goodness is heat in your analogy, this means that God only had a finite amount of energy/heat (i.e. goodness), otherwise, nothing should ever be "cold." (based on your heat/cold analogy)

A similar reasoning applies for darkness and light. There can only be darkness when the source of light is finite. If God is omnipotent and everywhere, then there can be no darkness anywhere.

I hope you're not saying that God only had/has a finite amount of goodness, and didn't have enough to go around or purposely withheld it from some of us.

Can we just agree to disagree?

Now where's the fun in that? Can we just agree to not do that?

[Greatguardian]

A similar reasoning applies for darkness and light. There can only be darkness when the source of light is finite.

Science nerd breaking in but this is actually extremely interesting as it's the core of the proof behind the Universe itself having a finite size. If the Universe had an infinite size, then there would be no night sky because the infinite sources of light would keep the Earth lit at all times.

Carry on!

[Demosthenes11]

if god created people simply to be our friends or condemn us, he is a huge dick.

seriously, how can people believe this.

[Demosthenes11]

if god created people simply to be our friends or condemn us, he is a huge dick.

seriously, how can people believe this.

"I love you, but if you don't take a book written 2k years ago by a bunch of dudes completely at face value then I will make you burn in fire for the rest of eternity."

Is god an abusive husband? "If you didn't do stupid shit, I wouldn't have to fucking hit you bitch."

[Ashmada]

I support raising a pyre and burning the thread's last 3-4 pages.

[Yuri-G]

I hate getting into these types of arguments. Especially Christian against Christian, that's not what we're supposed to be about. Though sometimes I gotta speak up because, shit, some people have to know you can have faith without being an ignorant judgmental fuckwad.

I hear you. but for what it's worth, you are absolutely the best kind of Christian. if they were all like you, the world would be a much better place, not even exaggerating.

[Ksandra]

I hear you. but for what it's worth, you are absolutely the best kind of Christian. if they were all like you, the world would be a much better place, not even exaggerating.

I appreciate it ^^ and I will say there's a lot more of this type of Christian than many realize. We're just not evangelistic so you won't notice us as much. I agree though, I wish more were like us (Christian and non), as I think that would help create a lot of peace , and allow everyone to be able to sit and decide their faith (or non) without judgement of others. Which would honestly help people make a more thought out and honest decision no matter what it ends up being.

[Kohan]

It seems that everyone has caught on to Moosey's "Greater Than Thou" shtick by this time, but in case they haven't, here's an easy step to take:

Replace all of his references to "God" with "me," "I," "mine," etc., and you can see what he's actually saying.

I didn't say "don't promote tolerance and love". I said don't promote religious tolerance and equality, because not all religions are equal. No one is being strong-armed. As mentioned before, no one is forcing you to post here or respond to anything I say. You can completely ignore me and go on with your day, ignorant to my existence.

I am well aware that the Catholic church is salvation based on works, which is completely non-biblical. So if you choose to believe in the tradition-based belief system the Catholic church has made up, I will pray for you.

Oh, well, that part didn't require any editing. He didn't mind putting his arrogance on full display, although that isn't too unusual. You see, the closer he came to defeat in previous discussions, the more he ignored and the less sensical he became. Eventually realizing that no one was stupid enough to take him at his word—not to mention consider changing to a religious view that wouldn't have been modern in the middle ages—he abandoned the discussion, as the only things left were pesky matters like "intellectual discussion" and the "sharing of facts".

At least, I'd like to think that was the reason, but it's mostly the fact that he's running on hot air and an empty head. There's nothing you can do in the face of the opposition when they're both more familiar with reality and the larger scope of whatever you're preaching about.

There is evidence for me in the natural world, and if a person is truly seeking me, and Truth, it is my understanding that they would be saved in the same way of the Old Testament saints.

No sir, absolutely not! You get one shot at salvation. At the end your life, you better have made that choice, but no one really knows when that is, so why wait?

People judge someone based on human moral standards. That isn't to say they are completely different than mine, in fact, they're very similar. Of course both human moral standards and my own say that murder is wrong, but when you get to what humans consider "lesser evils', lying, cheating, etc.. it seems to become a gray area and it is given its own range of good vs bad(white lies, etc..) The fact is, a lie is a lie, and no matter how little evil it is, it's still evil. That's the standard I use to judge people, and no one living now or ever in the past has ever fully held that standard, except me. My point is, Mother Theresa was still an imperfect human, and by her choice or not, sinned. My Bible says if you break one of the laws you break all of them. That's why until you are saved by Grace, a Mother Theresa is no different than a murderer in my eyes.

I don't live in a purely black and white world, but things(to me) are more black and white than they used to be.

I am not responsible for any sin, it's an impossibility. Sin, as I mentioned previously, is a lack of goodness, and I am the source of goodness, so it is a lack of me in your life. I knew full well what was going to happen, but free will was necessary because while people have the capacity to choose evil, they also have the capacity to choose good. I created humans so you could be in a love relationship with me. If there is no choice, then love cannot exist.

I didn't make you sin at all, I gave you the capability to sin (as well as love), and all the mental faculties to decide whether or not you should sin. The blame is your own.

Humans were created perfect, but due to a poor choice in the Garden of Eden, you became imperfect. Sin is like a disease that is incurable by humans and passed on through every generation.

Did I ever say the Bible didn't mention any of those things? If you guys are going to try and attack me, do it right and stop with the straw-man arguments, quote me for what I actually said and don't misconstrue it into something I didn't say. Also, NONE of those verses you posted show that you can attain salvation through works. That's what I called you out on, and you failed to defend yourself.

Oh, how odd. I didn't have to edit that last one either. At least that makes things easier!

Anyway, back to work...

I don't normally respond to blatant troll attempts, but consider this a freebie. Surprise, surprise! I actually have things to do other than sitting here all day posting on forums, and in the course of that, I missed her post. Thanks, come again.

Show me where I am judging anyone?

I do believe that the prior did a plenty good example of that, since it breaks down your shield of "God this, God that," and better demonstrates the reality.

Read the Bible, bro. Says a lot.

There's that arrogance again. "I know what you don't, and you're nothing until you bore yourself with the same useless exercise, as I can't be bothered. I'm much better at being a pretender."

You said that everything is black and white I said some things are, this reinforces nothing.

"I can't be bothered to explain myself. Don't try to frustrate me, or I'll just ignore you."

Why doesn't the reason matter? What if there was a good reason? Like that the people being conquered were evil, through and through? As in, child sacrifice, Ritual prostitution, adult human sacrifice, all in the name of their god. It's not like these were a happy, peaceful people just minding their own business. They were, by most rational people's standards, evil. The children that were killed were saved from growing up in such an evil culture, and likely went to be with me anyway, if they were under the age of accountability.

"And then I raped them."

Again, it's impossible for me to sin because I would have to be separated from myself. Stockholm syndrome is NOT love. It's a psychological coping system.

I created you to be in relationship with me, that is your purpose in life. If someone does not choose that, they punish themselves. Being in relationship with me is what we are supposed to do, that is the way the world was created. It's like a fish saying he doesn't believe in water and would rather live on land.

It's a good thing that sort of action happened in the last, else we wouldn't be here.

You seem to be having difficulty understanding what I'm saying.

Remember, children: Moosey is better than you.

It's just like his signature says:

Willing to discuss Christianity in an irrational, highly judgmental, arrogant and unsatisfying way.

Also, he's God. Don't question it.

[Yuri-G]

I appreciate it ^^ and I will say there's a lot more of this type of Christian than many realize. We're just not evangelistic so you won't notice us as much. I agree though, I wish more were like us (Christian and non), as I think that would help create a lot of peace , and allow everyone to be able to sit and decide their faith (or non) without judgement of others. Which would honestly help people make a more thought out and honest decision no matter what it ends up being.

bolded because that's a good point; militant atheists are no better than evangelist Christians. there are posters here I won't mention by name who fall on the liberal/atheist side that frustrate me just as much as Moosey; maybe even moreso because they're making people like me look bad by association.

[Ksandra]

bolded because that's a good point; militant atheists are no better than evangelist Christians. there are posters here I won't mention by name who fall on the liberal/atheist side that frustrate me just as much as Moosey; maybe even moreso because they're making people like me look bad by association.

you know how I feel then XD. Though tbh, I don't blame them. Collectively, religions started on the bashing first, and continue to do so. I don't blame anyone for being bitter/negative/dicks/etc. about it. Christians (and other faiths) have brought it on ourselves for the way we've treated others. Still makes me sad though.

[Jeryhn]

It's like this:

Cold does not exist, it is the absence of Heat.

Darkness does not exist, is the absence of Light.

Evil is an absence of Good = Sin does not exist, it is the absence of Good.

Sin isn't a created thing, it's a lack of something, a void.

Small caveat here.

Since heat and luminosity are, scientifically speaking, the same thing, how does it make sense that the sinful will be made to burn in a place made of hellfire and suffering that is supposed to be devoid of the divine presence, which you attribute to "Light"?



Also, evil is not an absence of good - it is a polar opposite. Clearly, you've not played enough D&D.

[Jeryhn]

Science nerd breaking in but this is actually extremely interesting as it's the core of the proof behind the Universe itself having a finite size. If the Universe had an infinite size, then there would be no night sky because the infinite sources of light would keep the Earth lit at all times.

Well, one could also say that if the universe was of infinite size, it could also be of infinite time... And light as a moving physical thing/energy/whatever does take a measure of time to cover a specific amount of distance. There's also the specific thing that most stars are small and slow-burn invisible to the naked eye, leaving their light to be more easily blocked by whatever else is floating through space (stardust, gas clouds, etc). The universe is probably just too young for us to be able to make any true distinctions about its nature.

The universe is just a pretty cool place overall. Its really too bad that some dopes feel the compulsion to misguidedly attribute it to what best serves themselves.

[Cream Soda]

I like how he didn't respond to my post at all.

[Jeryhn]

Join the club.

[Melena]

Yup, he ignored mine as well. I don't always rip on religion, but when I do, it's due to douches like Moosey. Stay sinful my friends.

[Helm]

It's fairly silly that he tries to turn every topic into some sort of douchey, arrogant, I'm-going-to-convert-you-dirty-heathens argument. I'm still 99% sure he's just doing this to be a troll.

You know Moosey, the biggest problem with your form of argumentation is that most of the people here aren't going to accept some sort of "God says so" type of "reasoning." As people have noted, there are plenty of god filled religions, so I fail to see what significance there is in quoting any god for support in these topics. No one is going to get on your god bus for the same reason you're not a practicing Buddhist or Hindu. You cherry pick arguments that let you stay within the language of your religion and ignore half the people here that are trying to keep on topic because you have no answer that would be sufficient or simply because your, "Willing to discuss Christianity in a rational, non-judgmental, even-tempered way." is a crock of shit.

Edit: Post was going to be significantly longer, but I don't particularly see much point in it right now as a lot of it has been said (and ignored) already.