Georgia/Arizona push abortion law to 20 weeks

[Moosey]

No matter how much "good" you do in the world (from what you've said, your world is pretty black and white, which must also be a sad place to live), if you don't accept god then you're damned.

Not everything is black and white, but in relation to God, it is. Good is relative from a human perspective. God created us to be in a relationship with Him. God is truly good, holy, and perfect. God cannot be in a relationship with a person tainted by sin, because sin is a lack of goodness. Jesus Christ forgives our sin when we choose to put our trust in Him, and we are "born again" in God's Holy Spirit, no longer covered with that taint of sin. God can then be in relationship with us again. If we do not choose that, then we cannot be with God. That's what Hell is, an eternal separation from God. Most people don't even realize or take for granted all the things we have on this Earth, all of which is provided for by God whether you believe in Him or not. That luxury doesn't exist in Hell because God is not there.

[Pirian]

Good to see Mosey is as big of a troll on here as he was on Phoenix. If you want intelligent discourse with him you're beating down the wrong door.

It's not that I expect an intelligent discussion, but rather that I just like pointing out the holes in logic. The thing here is that the holes in the logic are already huge, and it doesn't matter to him because he has "faith" to artificially fill those holes, and expects that to be good enough for everyone else, too. Also, I'm a masochist by nature.

[Ksandra]

I am well aware that the Catholic church is salvation based on works, which is completely non-biblical. So if you choose to believe in the tradition-based belief system the Catholic church has made up, I will pray for you.

lol, you're right. What are the Catholics thinking?! It's not like the bible mentions to help the poor and sick and needy, ever. Totally non-biblical to do good things.


Oh wait....


Acts 20:35

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Matthew 25:35-40

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ ...

Galatians 6:2

Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Deuteronomy 15:11

For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

Matthew 5:42

Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Luke 6:38

Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Luke 12:33-34

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Proverbs 14:31

Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

Proverbs 22:9

Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

Acts 20:35-38

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’” And when he had said these things, he knelt down and prayed with them all. And there was much weeping on the part of all; they embraced Paul and kissed him, being sorrowful most of all because of the word he had spoken, that they would not see his face again. And they accompanied him to the ship.

Isaiah 25:4

For you have been a stronghold to the poor, a stronghold to the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat; for the breath of the ruthless is like a storm against a wall,





James 1:27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Matthew 10:8

Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.

Acts 9:32-43

Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda. There he found a man named Aeneas, bedridden for eight years, who was paralyzed. And Peter said to him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed.” And immediately he rose. And all the residents of Lydda and Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord. Now there was in Joppa a disciple named Tabitha, which, translated, means Dorcas. She was full of good works and acts of charity. ...

Mark 10:21
And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

John 3:16-17

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Proverbs 28:27
Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.

1 John 4:7-8

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.



Matthew 5:1-48
Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. ...

Job 30:25

Did not I weep for him whose day was hard? Was not my soul grieved for the needy?



Galatians 2:10

Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Mark 12:31

The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”


Jeremiah 18:1-7

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will let you hear my words.” So I went down to the potter's house, and there he was working at his wheel. And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter's hand, and he reworked it into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to do. Then the word of the Lord came to me: ...

1 Peter 1:22

Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,

Ephesians 5:20

Giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Corinthians 8:9

For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.



2 Corinthians 9:12
For the ministry of this service is not only supplying the needs of the saints but is also overflowing in many thanksgivings to God.

Galatians 6:7-9

Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

2 Corinthians 8:9-11

For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have.

[Eurell]

Moosey. What proof is there that the bible is truthful. Please give me a reason to believe that it isn't a big book of fair tales. I don't know why I keep getting ignored on this.

[Pirian]

Not everything is black and white, but in relation to God, it is.

Translation: Not everything is black and white, except in religion.
Implication: If you want to be saved, you must live in a black-and-white world.

Good is relative from a human perspective. God created us to be in a relationship with Him. God is truly good, holy, and perfect.

This is the "truly good, holy, and perfect" god that commanded genocide, decreed the death of everything (save, 1 family and 2 of every species), and then later admitted the mistakes of these actions.

God cannot be in a relationship with a person tainted by sin, because sin is a lack of goodness.

Except that if god created us then he we sinned, then god is responsible for this sin. Even if you try and put the blame on "free will", well, god gave that free will, so this is again the perfect gods fault.

Jesus Christ forgives our sin when we choose to put our trust in Him, and we are "born again" in God's Holy Spirit, no longer covered with that taint of sin. God can then be in relationship with us again.

Jesus Christ (which is god) forgives us from the sins that he (god) made us do by making us the way he made us, but only if we recognize him as god, otherwise we are doomed because of gods mistake.

If we do not choose that, then we cannot be with God. That's what Hell is, an eternal separation from God. Most people don't even realize or take for granted all the things we have on this Earth, all of which is provided for by God whether you believe in Him or not. That luxury doesn't exist in Hell because God is not there.

If we don't choose him then this must be what god wants, because god is infallible and perfect, and to create an imperfect being would itself be a a reflection of the imperfection in the creator.

[Helm]

It's not that I expect an intelligent discussion, but rather that I just like pointing out the holes in logic. The thing here is that the holes in the logic are already huge, and it doesn't matter to him because he has "faith" to artificially fill those holes, and expects that to be good enough for everyone else, too. Also, I'm a masochist by nature.

Aye, I assumed a lot of people just reply to him for kicks. Admittedly it probably would be significantly more boring in this forum without a few crazies floating around.

[Ashmada]

I wonder if Moosey here is one of those who thinks this country was founded under christian values, that they truly didn't mean separation of church and state, and didn't flee england to america to escape the persecution of the english church. Oh and that one nation under god was always in the pledge of allegiance and wasn't added in the 50's due to the red scare and mcarthyism.

They're sort of half-right. While the "under god" and "in god we trust*" were latter additions, many pilgrims were in fact puritans.

*Shame, E Pluribus Unum was so much more badass. So would be "in god we thrust", for that matter.

[Greatguardian]

Moosey. What proof is there that the bible is truthful. Please give me a reason to believe that it isn't a big book of fair tales. I don't know why I keep getting ignored on this.

You don't?

The guy selectively responds to any point he can perpetuate long enough to get his jimmies off. He's just a troll.

(inb4 he responds to this but not the post 1-2 pages ago which actually necessitated a thought out response)

[Moosey]

Translation: Not everything is black and white, except in religion.

Implication: If you want to be saved, you must live in a black-and-white world.

I don't live in a purely black and white world, but things(to me) are more black and white than they used to be.

This is the "truly good, holy, and perfect" god that commanded genocide, decreed the death of everything (save, 1 family and 2 of every species), and then later admitted the mistakes of these actions.

Can you provide a source for this information please?

Except that if god created us then he we sinned, then god is responsible for this sin. Even if you try and put the blame on "free will", well, god gave that free will, so this is again the perfect gods fault.

God is not responsible for any sin, it's an impossibility. Sin, as i mentioned previously, is a lack of goodness, and God is the source of goodness, so it is a lack of God in your life. God knew full well what was going to happen, but free will was necessary because while people have the capacity to choose evil, they also have the capacity to choose good. God created humans so we could be in a love relationship with Him. If there is no choice, then love cannot exist.

Jesus Christ (which is god) forgives us from the sins that he (god) made us do by making us the way he made us, but only if we recognize him as god, otherwise we are doomed because of gods mistake.

God didn't make us sin at all, he gave us the capability to sin (as well as love), and all the mental faculties to decide whether or not we should sin. The blame is our own.

If we don't choose him then this must be what god wants, because god is infallible and perfect, and to create an imperfect being would itself be a a reflection of the imperfection in the creator.

Humans were created perfect, but due to a poor choice in the Garden of Eden, became imperfect. Sin is like a disease that is incurable by humans and passed on through every generation.

Moosey. What proof is there that the bible is truthful. Please give me a reason to believe that it isn't a big book of fair tales. I don't know why I keep getting ignored on this.

Sorry I haven't gotten to you yet, I haven't forgotten.

Refer to this article, it can explain the answer to you much more eloquently than I:
http://carm.org/can-we-trust-new-tes...rical-document

[Pirian]

I don't live in a purely black and white world, but things(to me) are more black and white than they used to be.

This just reinforces the notion that I submitted.

Can you provide a source for this information please?

Joshua 6:21 "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword."

It doesn't matter the reason. God commanded it.

God is not responsible for any sin, it's an impossibility. Sin, as i mentioned previously, is a lack of goodness, and God is the source of goodness, so it is a lack of God in your life. God knew full well what was going to happen, but free will was necessary because while people have the capacity to choose evil, they also have the capacity to choose good. God created humans so we could be in a love relationship with Him. If there is no choice, then love cannot exist.

If god knew what he was doing and knew people would choose "evil" then god sinned by giving them the this possibility. There can be love without choice, it's called Stockhome syndrome

God didn't make us sin at all, he gave us the capability to sin (as well as love), and all the mental faculties to decide whether or not we should sin. The blame is our own.

The act of creating us knowing that some would choose to sin and then punishing them for doing so is the sign of a failure in design.

Humans were created perfect, but due to a poor choice in the Garden of Eden, became imperfect. Sin is like a disease that is incurable by humans and passed on through every generation.

And god created sin, thus god is imperfect.

[hey]

There is evidence for God in the natural world

lol...

[notorious bum]

Yeah, God made it super-fucking obvious that he existed for those who don't have access his NYT Bestseller. You're simply an idiot if you believe in other Gods or none at all.

Oh, and you're going to hell for being an idiot, non-believer; don't give him any of that "I lived a just, pure, and unselfish life" bullshit at the pearly gates, he ain't hearing any of that shit. You're holding up the line and George W. Bush needs to get through, fuckin Muhammad.

[Yuri-G]

I love you, Ksandra.

also, everyone take note of how Moosey completely ignored Ksandra's post because he can't refute it. he only replies to things he can refute; that's how he keeps these arguments going, and that's what I've stopped bothering to reply to him. because he won't take you seriously if he can't at least attempt to prove you wrong.

of course, he might respond to her now just to prove me wrong, but that's a win-win.

[Demosthenes11]

Yeah, God made it super-fucking obvious that he existed for those who don't have access his NYT Bestseller. You're simply an idiot if you believe in other Gods or none at all.

Oh, and you're going to hell for being an idiot, non-believer; don't give him any of that "I lived a just, pure, and unselfish life" bullshit at the pearly gates, he ain't hearing any of that shit. You're holding up the line and George W. Bush needs to get through, fuckin Muhammad.

[Helm]

A troll is a troll and clearly some people never change. I'd imagine he has the, "Willing to discuss Christianity in a rational, non-judgmental, even-tempered way." line in his signature as some sort of backdoor attempt to drop the victim card once people get sick of his shit.

[Sera]

You don't like Christians because what they say makes you feel convicted(read: not condemning, there is a difference)

Nah bro. I know several christians i like just fine -- my MIL never misses a service and is a very devoted christian. She just isn't obnoxious like you. I don't like you because you're judgmental and embody everything that is wrong with religion as a whole.

I didn't say "don't promote tolerance and love". I said don't promote religious tolerance and equality, because not all religions are equal. No one is being strong-armed. As mentioned before, no one is forcing you to post here or respond to anything I say. You can completely ignore me and go on with your day, ignorant to my existence.

When you promote laws based on your theology, you strongarm others into bowing to your religious rules. Can't ignore LAWS.

People judge someone based on human moral standards. That isn't to say they are completely different than God's, in fact, they're very similar... Mother Theresa is no different than a murderer in God's eyes.

Except you're not god, so how do you know that? Are you his official spokesperson? Did he specifically sit you down and explain his view to you and allow you to ask questions? Or are you just interpreting something you read and deriving what you want from it?

Good to know that you believe that it's what you believe and not how you live your life. That sounds like a very sad existence

It sounds delusional.

What the flaming fuck happened to this thread? My god.

Moosey happened.

lol, you're right. What are the Catholics thinking?! It's not like the bible mentions to help the poor and sick and needy, ever. Totally non-biblical to do good
things. [insert a billion bible verses here about helping others etc]

Wow, good work. Get fucked up, GOP Fundamentalists!

[Moosey]

lol, you're right. What are the Catholics thinking?! It's not like the bible mentions to help the poor and sick and needy, ever. Totally non-biblical to do good things.


Oh wait....

Did I ever say the Bible didn't mention any of those things? If you guys are going to try and attack me, do it right and stop with the straw-man arguments, quote me for what I actually said and don't misconstrue it into something I didn't say. Also, NONE of those verses you posted show that you can attain salvation through works. That's what I called you out on, and you failed to defend yourself.

I love you, Ksandra.

also, everyone take note of how Moosey completely ignored Ksandra's post because he can't refute it. he only replies to things he can refute; that's how he keeps these arguments going, and that's what I've stopped bothering to reply to him. because he won't take you seriously if he can't at least attempt to prove you wrong.

of course, he might respond to her now just to prove me wrong, but that's a win-win.

I don't normally respond to blatant troll attempts, but consider this a freebie. Surprise, surprise! I actually have things to do other than sitting here all day posting on forums, and in the course of that, I missed her post. Thanks, come again.

Nah bro. I know several christians i like just fine -- my MIL never misses a service and is a very devoted christian. She just isn't obnoxious like you. I don't like you because you're judgmental and embody everything that is wrong with religion as a whole.

Show me where I am judging anyone?

Except you're not god, so how do you know that? Are you his official spokesperson? Did he specifically sit you down and explain his view to you and allow you to ask questions? Or are you just interpreting something you read and deriving what you want from it?

Read the Bible, bro. Says a lot.

This just reinforces the notion that I submitted.

You said that everything is black and white I said some things are, this reinforces nothing.

Joshua 6:21 "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword."

It doesn't matter the reason. God commanded it.

Why doesn't the reason matter? What if there was a good reason? Like that the people being conquered were evil, through and through? As in, child sacrifice, Ritual prostitution, adult human sacrifice, all in the name of their god. It's not like these were a happy, peaceful people just minding their own business. They were, by most rational people's standards, evil. The children that were killed were saved from growing up in such an evil culture, and likely went to be with God anyway, if they were under the age of accountability.

If god knew what he was doing and knew people would choose "evil" then god sinned by giving them the this possibility. There can be love without choice, it's called Stockhome syndrome

Again, it's impossible for God to sin because He would have to be separated from Himself. Stockholm syndrome is NOT love. It's a psychological coping system.

The act of creating us knowing that some would choose to sin and then punishing them for doing so is the sign of a failure in design.

A failure based on what standard?

God created us to be in relationship with Him, that is our purpose in life. If someone does not choose that, they punish themselves. Being in relationship with God is what we are supposed to do, that is the way the world was created. It's like a fish saying he doesn't believe in water and would rather live on land.

And god created sin, thus god is imperfect.

You seem to be having difficulty understanding what I'm saying.

It's like this:

Cold does not exist, it is the absence of Heat.

Darkness does not exist, is the absence of Light.

Evil is an absence of Good = Sin does not exist, it is the absence of Good.

Sin isn't a created thing, it's a lack of something, a void.

[Ragnus]

Can we just agree to disagree?

[Sera]

Read the Bible, bro. Says a lot.

Except you're not god, so how do you know that? Are you his official spokesperson? Did he specifically sit you down and explain his view to you and allow you to ask questions? Or are you just interpreting something you read and deriving what you want from it?

Oh ok, so it IS like I said. Thanks for clearing that up.

[JigglyJam]

lol omg i read that in his voice too