The Prenatal Holocaust

[archibaldcrane]

it is picking nits though. A woman has to go through 9 months of pregnancy, birth the child, get over the emotional anguish of letting go of your child which you just pushed out of your vagina after you fed it for almost a year, and sign some papers. A man has to sign some papers.

When we're talking about abortion or having to pay child support, both of which a man has 0 control over and doesn't have the option to "sign some papers", the distinction is important.

[archibaldcrane]

If a woman wants to keep the child and the father does not want to be a part of it, then that is fine, but she needs to make that decision while aware of the financial responsibility she is taking on.

How is this better for the child?

[Pirian]

How is this better for the child?

It's better for the child by not having a shitty mother who doesn't know how to take on responsibility. I am saying this only partly in jest <.<

[Yugl]

If she knows he won't support the child (Or even supports having an abortion), knows she does not have the financial resources to support the child on her own, and still decides to keep the child, that's her own damn problem.

[archibaldcrane]

If she knows he won't support the child (Or even supports having an abortion), knows she does not have the financial resources to support the child on her own, and still decides to keep the child, that's her own damn problem.

No, it's also the child's problem.

[hey]

So then what if the father wishes to keep the baby but the mother doesn't? Should the mother be required to pay the child payments to the father for the non-existent baby in lieu of having an abortion, because that is what the father would have had to do if she kept the baby and he didn't want it? Certainly not. If a woman wants to keep the child and the father does not want to be a part of it, then that is fine, but she needs to make that decision while aware of the financial responsibility she is taking on. You're saying that this decision for men happens every time they have sex, and that just isn't right. You're also saying that it is OK that this double-standard exist simply because the woman has to go through the 9 month pregnancy if she so chooses to keep it, which also just isn't right.

If the father wants it, and the mother wants to abort, then too bad, she doesn't have to host a parasite for 9 months just because someone said so.

If she doesn't abort, and also doesn't want to raise it, but the father does, then presumably she should pay child support (or not, since being forced to pay for a child you never wanted is retarded as fuck).

[Pirian]

If the father wants it, and the mother wants to abort, then too bad, she doesn't have to host a parasite for 9 months just because someone said so.

If she doesn't abort, and also doesn't want to raise it, but the father does, then presumably she should pay child support (or not, since being forced to pay for a child you never wanted is retarded as fuck).

We're not disagreeing here, but it sounds like you think we are <.< I was merely propositioning questions to show the double-standards.

[Yugl]

No, it's also the child's problem.

Then why allow her to keep the child after? She has control over her body, yes. She has to either have an abortion or give birth. There is no other option at the point the question arises. That means she has control over the method of "delivery." That alone does not confer to control thereafter.

[hey]

We're not disagreeing here, but it sounds like you think we are <.< I was merely propositioning questions to show the double-standards.

I did not think we were. It's not really a double standard though. The first is a completely different situation. And as far as i'm aware mothers do have to pay child support is the father raises it on his own.

[Pirian]

I did not think we were. It's not really a double standard though. The first is a completely different situation. And as far as i'm aware mothers do have to pay child support is the father raises it on his own.

Well, in my stupid hypothetical, there was never a baby in the case of the mother not wanting one. I was proposing a double standard based upon the notion when each partner is allowed to make their parenting decision, and who's held accountable.

[archibaldcrane]

Then why allow her to keep the child after?

Because in the absence of extreme situations, it's almost always in the best interest of the child to stay with their biological parents.

There isn't nearly enough prospective adoptive parents to care for the unwanted children we already have in this country. (unless they're white and under the age of 2)

[Yugl]

Because in the absence of extreme situations, it's almost always in the best interest of the child to stay with their biological parents.

There isn't nearly enough prospective adoptive parents to care for the unwanted children we already have in this country. (unless they're white and under the age of 2)

You misunderstand my implication. You could just off the infant afterwards. I only bring that up because 1) Someone may argue that abortion shouldn't be forced upon them because it's "their body" and 2) people here seem to favor euthanizing those with mental defects because they'll contribute less, economically, to society. If you're following that logic, why not here too? I'm betting living in a household without necessary resources + single parents increases the probability they won't be successful as well. Thread crossing? Yes. I think it's a good point to explore if people are going to offer such justifications though.

[Churchill]

Actually this issue is solved if the father can abort it after birth like in the other thread.

[RKenshin]

No, it's also the child's problem.

I'm confused with the point you're making here.

Are you saying the child has rights in this discussion too? And that parents should be bound by law to stay together for the good of the child? Or what?

I know that sounds ridiculous, but I don't see what implication you're trying to make here that isn't extreme. If the legal responsibilities of the parents are to include what is also best for the child, that can get a bit insane.