Predict the Fall of Garuda (4/13/2012)

**Charismatic** · 2012-04-16 08:41

How many times was PW even fought before the nerf? I mean, I know initial estimates make it look terrible but maybe there actually was another way to fight it that woulda have eased it up quite a bit as Square said there was.

I mean, it coulda been another AV where they keep talking about regen but there really coulda been something else. We didn't have any real time with the original PW... none of us know for sure.

**Rocl** · 2012-04-16 09:46

Originally Posted by Charismatic

How many times was PW even fought before the nerf?

Back when it had 20 forms? I think BtL was like the third, Rukenshin's massive livejournal update mentions two shells popping before him and I am fairly positive it was never popped again in the 20-form form after BtL's 18 hour fight.

**Lucavi** · 2012-04-16 12:02

That's the fight SE should have had the guessing contest for.

**Spira** · 2012-04-16 13:13

problem being no one even knew how to find him for quite some time...
oldschool FFXI battle systems comprised a lot of 'figure out the system', before getting to the final boss involved. added a bit to the mystery of it all..

but of course some things dont need to be too complicated. i think Garuda fight should be interesting. I anticipate her to have some kind of annoying frequent knockback or something. Am more looking forward to seeing how she looks like. This is only the 2nd FF with her appearing as a summon

**Alkar** · 2012-04-16 13:24

Originally Posted by Spira

problem being no one even knew how to find him for quite some time...
oldschool FFXI battle systems comprised a lot of 'figure out the system', before getting to the final boss involved. added a bit to the mystery of it all..

but of course some things dont need to be too complicated. i think Garuda fight should be interesting. I anticipate her to have some kind of annoying frequent knockback or something. Am more looking forward to seeing how she looks like. This is only the 2nd FF with her appearing as a summon

I'm pretty sure she's in the 2.0 documents somewhere. Unless you mean in-game.

**TacoTaru** · 2012-04-16 13:24

At first I thought that was wrong, then I remembered I keep confusing Siren with Garuda in older games <_>.

I'm sure he means her in game model opposed to her concept art drawing.

**Raldo** · 2012-04-16 14:04

Judging from the glimpses seen in the video, I assume the model looks quite similar. 4 wings, lithe, etc.

I just assume he wasn't aware (or forgot) that it was included in the concept art. Link, for those not bothered to track it down (page 6 for Garuda).

**Rocl** · 2012-04-16 20:19

Originally Posted by Spira

problem being no one even knew how to find him for quite some time...
oldschool FFXI battle systems comprised a lot of 'figure out the system', before getting to the final boss involved. added a bit to the mystery of it all..

huh?? by the time people got pandemonium keys we had narrowed it down to two ???s with identical text (do all ZNM ???s share text? i don't remember, it's been literally years since I've fought one) with one being right outside Al Zhabi and the other in Aydeewa Subeterrane (I remember espousing the Al Zhabi ??? b/c it was closer to town and there was NO way a ??? would eat your item and NOT pop the correct mob... lol atnm test)

However that aside, the path to Pandemonium Warden was incredibly linear and the only thing debated was whether or not it was poppable (I don't remember his Aydeewa ??? being in the original ZNM patch, it came with a random Emergency Maintenance all ninja style) but it was easy to confirm he existed when you could just pull up the DATs.

Or do you mean figure-it-out like figure-out-AV's gimmick?? I'm confused as to what you're nostalgia goggling. I don't think Pandemonium Warden was ever this big mystery, some people (including myself) thought maybe there wasn't a T5 ZNM, but it took all of 30s to boot up Pebbles and find him, his pop item, etc.The only delay I'd wager is the abysmal drop rate T4 trophies originally possessed, not some unknowable conundrum we couldn't solve. If you mean their "method to speed up the fight" then yes. There was a bit of mystery to that. (I don't even remember if they said flat out that there was a gimmick like they eventually did with AV)

**Spira** · 2012-04-17 00:06

i remember the Garuda concept art. im more interested in seeing how she turns out in a 3d model.. I'm excited to see what she's like, like her moves and so on, because like i said this is the 2nd FF that she's an actual summon/eidolon/avatar/esper in. I'd like to know how shes evolved as a "summon". Its probably just a thing that I have as someone who likes and observes the FF series. Kinda like how Siren was once bumped up to become a summon from being just a boss...

As for PW and other FFXI NM systems. maybe I didn't make myself clear.
There WAS a lot of figuring out to do - for pretty much all its endgame content, especially in terms of how you progress in it.
Even in Voidwatch, all you need to do is go to a spot to pop an NM. This was as simple as it got, and even then they never outright tell you how to upgrade abyssite to reach the last tier. This is what I was driving at for PW/AV. Unlike in XIV, we're never really told what the ultimate goal/boss is, and it is never available from the get-go when the patch is released (meaning to say theres always some kind of prebattle progression or questing). For every dungeon did we get a video telling us who the bosses were? No, we had to dat mine that ourselves. And that still means we're figuring it out ourselves.

Once again, I'm not saying either way is better, because there is a situation for both kinds of systems.. but I do miss the puzzle-like nature of older FFXI NM systems, like sea or salvage, where players would come together to crack their heads at figuring out the puzzle nature of said system. And dat mining helped but there was only so much it could do. Even early day abyssea had some elements of this... Ultimately i think its just the longing for something to feel unknown in the game again

**Cichy** · 2012-04-17 01:35

Garudas face looks bit different than the concept art. Concept looked better imo.

**Alkar** · 2012-04-17 06:04

Considering Ifrit doesn't really use any of his iconic attacks except for Hellfire/Inferno I'm expecting Garuda to do the same. She'll have Aerial Blast for sure but other than that she'll have gimmick attacks in place. I'm just hoping it's something completely different from Ifrit.

**Raldo** · 2012-04-17 08:39

I certainly could have done without Garuda's soulless black holes for eyes, but I suppose in-game we'll probably never zoom in so close to her face. They're super creepy looking; though that's probably what they were going for.

Originally Posted by Alkar

Considering Ifrit doesn't really use any of his iconic attacks except for Hellfire/Inferno I'm expecting Garuda to do the same. She'll have Aerial Blast for sure but other than that she'll have gimmick attacks in place. I'm just hoping it's something completely different from Ifrit.

What other iconic attacks does Ifrit even have -- basic fire spells?

**Alkar** · 2012-04-17 08:42

Originally Posted by Raldo

I certainly could have done without Garuda's soulless black holes for eyes, but I suppose in-game we'll probably never zoom in so close to her face. They're super creepy looking; though that's probably what they were going for.

What other iconic attacks does Ifrit even have -- basic fire spells?

Meteor Strike mainly. Also Fire spells as he usually casts them anytime you fight against him (including XI).
Then again I'm sure they'll make stronger versions of them so they'll probably add these attacks in.

**Niiro** · 2012-04-17 09:40

The only "iconic" attacks any avatars have are what they've used as their only attacks for the entire series.

Everything else isn't iconic it's just stuff they made up for XI.

**Elcura** · 2012-04-17 09:45

Originally Posted by Niiro

The only "iconic" attacks any avatars have are what they've used as their only attacks for the entire series.

Everything else isn't iconic it's just stuff they made up for XI.

And X, iirc.

**Lucavi** · 2012-04-17 09:46

Bahamut standing around with his arms crossed, puffing his chest out should be iconic by this point, as that's how badass he looked doing it.

**Niiro** · 2012-04-17 09:47

Ah, I forget about X, probably because the summons were best used at meat shields <.<;;

Ifrit/Shiva/Baha were the only contemporary summons in X right?

**Spira** · 2012-04-17 11:40

Originally Posted by Elcura

And X, iirc.

and XIII.

Meteor Blast and Heavenly Strike are the only two other moves than their typical attacks that carried over from FFX to FFXI. But for Ifrit, evidently not into FFXIV.

I suppose the only real thing to expect from Garuda is Aerial Blast. Considering they don't have many other games to draw past attacks from, I'm wondering if they'll take any more from XI as well. Predator Claws still sound sick to me.

edit: yes Niiro. Anima has since appeared again at least 1 more time but not exactly the same thing.

**Corrderio** · 2012-04-17 13:52

Originally Posted by Lucavi

Bahamut standing around with his arms crossed, puffing his chest out should be iconic by this point, as that's how badass he looked doing it.

If they ever add a Bahamut fight. I damn well better see this during his countdown phase.

**Alkar** · 2012-04-17 14:14

Their special attacks from X are iconic. They've pretty much appeared ever since in their newer forms.
I'd say 10 years is enough to consider something "iconic".

Thread: Predict the Fall of Garuda (4/13/2012)

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