Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

**Correction** · 2014-10-28 19:50

Saginaw officers who shot and killed Milton Hall won't face federal charges

Hall died from police gunfire during a Sunday afternoon standoff July 1, 2012. Police were responding to reports that a man had stolen a cup of coffee from a convenience store and encountered Hall, who was armed with a knife and had a known history of mental illness.

Six officers shot at Hall 47 times; 11 bullets struck him. Several civilians witnessed the incident and recorded portions of it on their cellular phones.

Video (nsfw)
Register to see the NSFW content

They didn't use the dog on him why? Do cops in Michigan not use a tool designed to save officer lives because they value its life over that of a mentally ill black man?

**Nephlite** · 2014-10-28 20:21

Maybe because the guy was armed with a knife and allowing a K-9 to get cut is pretty cruel? And if the guy killed the dog, you still have a maniac with a knife to deal with.

They were waiting for the CIO to get there when the guy started going crazy. Mentally disturbed people are dangerous. You do what you can to help them, but for every 10-20 you can take without force, there's always one who doesn't go easy.

**Nephlite** · 2014-10-28 21:01

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

I think you left this is the wrong place. There is nothing ridiculous about this video.

Evening out this rediculous bullshit thread.

**quannum** · 2014-10-28 21:08

why do you feel the need to do that?

**Correction** · 2014-10-28 21:27

Originally Posted by Nephlite

Maybe because the guy was armed with a knife and allowing a K-9 to get cut is pretty cruel?

So Dog > Black Man's Life.

Thanks for confirming.

**Ghost_Wheel22** · 2014-10-28 21:29

In most states a K-9 dog is considered a full-fledged police officer and is valued as such. And cops don't approach open wielded knives, 21 foot rule, etc.

Why not ask why didn't they just shoot the knife out of his hand, or tranq dart him, or hit him with a dazzler light, or use beanbags, or sprayed with PAVA, or exposed to the dirge of Slaneesh, or other equally dumb questions?

**Lucavi** · 2014-10-28 21:29

Not just any dog. A police K-9. True American heroes. Not like those scummy mentally ill filthpits.

**Nephlite** · 2014-10-28 22:06

Originally Posted by quannum

why do you feel the need to do that?

Because 90% of this thread is circlejerk bullshit. See below:

Originally Posted by Correction

So Dog > Black Man's Life.

Thanks for confirming.

Aren't you one of the few who was outraged when police kill dogs while responding to calls?

Also, completely ignore the fact the guy was mentally unstable, had already attacked multiple people prior to the deputies responding WITH a weapon, and still had a knife when they arrived on scene and started to erratically move and advance on the deputies.

Oh, forgot. "Unarmed" black man killed. Blacks should be immune to all scrutiny and law, cause you know, racism.

Originally Posted by Lucavi

Not just any dog. A police K-9. True American heroes. Not like those scummy mentally ill filthpits.

Again, people are so outraged when people send in K-9 units because they're "vicious attack dogs". Then, they cause such a massive shitstorm uproar when a police officer shoots a dog while responding to calls. AND THEN, they criticize the police for wanting to protect one of their partners from a mentally unstable man with a knife (which by the way, they exercised great restraint with the guy), and want them to send in the K-9.

Jesus, people. Make up your goddamn minds. What the fuck exactly do you people want the police to do? Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

**Acevalefor** · 2014-10-28 22:10

I know full well what police officers do for society. I know there are vastly more instances where cops are not the bad guy than there are "gotcha" filmed incidents of cops doing something wrong. I have thoughts all the time of becoming a police officer because I love helping people. Those thoughts quickly turn to the negative side of police work. I would spend a large part of my time doing things that I don't agree with and enforcing laws that may or may not be just. I could not do it. Even with the knowledge that police officers, for the most part, are good human beings, I can't help but criticize bad work done by those human beings.

Why do police in many of these adverse instances spend so much energy escalating a situation? There were what, 8, 10 officers surrounding this guy? (I cannot see it very well on my tablet) I wonder what would have happened if they had not approached him. What if they stayed behind the cars or didn't even get out of their cars? What if they made more of an effort to make the mentally ill guy feel safe instead of creating the situation in which they feel they have to fight the police or die? Why does that tribute video have to include an excerpt about training "warriors" and only 1 in 100 of them are true "warriors"? Being a cop is not being a warrior or a soldier. This is not a war and it is not a violent scary society. Why is it even compared to that? These instances of police confrontations are really hard to gauge what the correct response is. But, going into the situation when you know the suspect is mentally ill makes it even harder to respond correctly. Maybe in this situation, guns drawn ready to kill was the correct response. Maybe it wasn't. Can we, police included, learn from it?

I see these situations of police stand-offs much the same as I see police chasing a car through a school zone or a mall parking lot or a heavily populated neighborhood. Many departments have adopted a policy where they will terminate the chase or not engage in the chase at all. And guess what? The person involved almost always ends up in police custody shortly after the car chase is ended. Within days or weeks they do something else stupid and get arrested. Chases almost always end adversely for the officers involved. Many lives are put at risk.

**Nephlite** · 2014-10-28 22:35

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

Why do police in many of these adverse instances spend so much energy escalating a situation? There were what, 8, 10 officers surrounding this guy? (I cannot see it very well on my tablet) I wonder what would have happened if they had not approached him. What if they stayed behind the cars or didn't even get out of their cars? What if they made more of an effort to make the mentally ill guy feel safe instead of creating the situation in which they feel they have to fight the police or die? Why does that tribute video have to include an excerpt about training "warriors" and only 1 in 100 of them are true "warriors"? Being a cop is not being a warrior or a soldier. This is not a war and it is not a violent scary society. Why is it even compared to that?

As with most instances, this video is accompanied with tears and no context. The reality is the guy was attacking people with a knife prior to them responding. They get there, and I'm sure at some point, the first one or two stayed out of the way away from him and kept eyes on him until more people showed up. You know what inaction does to people who hurt other people? They hurt more people. That's why you wait for backup and form a team to take them down.

The guy was mentally unstable and did not listen to reason. The jurisdiction they're in probably doesn't have much of an ERT/Hostage negotiation/EDP control officer to talk the guy down. So who else goes in to handle this? National Guard? The Fire Department? Ask Boyiee what the FD does going to a scene like this. The FBI's Behavioral Analysis Bureau? How long do you think it'll take for them to get there? Have you ever talked down a suicidal or mentally ill person? What would you do to "talk" them down? I see a lot of guys here say "Talk them down" but I doubt any have tried to or had the experience of trying to talk down someone who will just not listen to reason. Ever tried to talk to a homeless person who's been on the street for 20 years? Do me a favor and the next guy you see standing on the street corner yelling at himself, go try to convince him that the economy is better than ever and that he should get a job like a civilized human being.

If they start doing something, you obviously have to do what you have to do. If they were looking to kill the guy outright, one of them could have easily went out solo and killed him. I mean, he has a knife, and you have a gun. Which one wins? Why form up a squad of people to move in cautiously and try to negotiate with him? Just kill him and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

I see these situations of police stand-offs much the same as I see police chasing a car through a school zone or a mall parking lot or a heavily populated neighborhood. Many departments have adopted a policy where they will terminate the chase or not engage in the chase at all. And guess what? The person involved almost always ends up in police custody shortly after the car chase is ended. Within days or weeks they do something else stupid and get arrested. Chases almost always end adversely for the officers involved. Many lives are put at risk.

The person ends up in custody at what cost? How many more lives do they put in danger still trying to get away? When they inevitably crash and kill a family going to soccer practice? After people rob banks or murder their girlfriends, they always calmly drive away like good law abiding citizens and obey every traffic law and stop at every traffic light.

Either way, lives are put in danger. The police are there to minimize the amount of lives lost. Why not make an attempt to neutralize it? You think people who see this type of stuff do anything? How come the people who were getting attacked by the knife wielding maniac didn't try to subdue him? I mean, most of you guys with the anti-police tactic sentiment seem to be experts in the practice, so you're not a rarity among the general population. Obviously, that's gotta be the norm, right? I mean, that's the main reason why crime and murder rates are going down, right? The citizens are stepping their game up and suddenly stopping all these things, right?

**Acevalefor** · 2014-10-28 22:56

Take your jade colored glasses off and read what I wrote. Stop being so hostile in your responses. It's a discussion and I was making observations. I feel like I need to say it more than once. Read what I wrote.

How many times have I said that I don't have the answers? How many times have I asked questions in here just for you to come in here all cocky and hostile telling me and many others how stupid we are? I thought we agreed that you would stop raging at everyone and I would stop posting my immediate reactions full of vitriol and anger. I have held up my side.

I mentioned the car chase thing as a comparison to point out that response with force is not always the best policy. It is sometimes necessary but I think it is used too often as a first-line policy. Aggregate charges because the officer is angry is another possible point of contention. This is the kind of stuff we are here to discuss. We are not here to be told by a police officer with a chip on his shoulder how stupid we are for asking questions and discussing the very thing this thread is all about.

**BaneTheBrawler** · 2014-10-28 23:00

Originally Posted by Nephlite

Because 90% of this thread is circlejerk bullshit.

that's because this is the ridiculous police news thread. if you want a feelgood police thread go fucking make one. this thread is literally composed of the scum of your profession and you spend your time defending these chuckleheads. and then you wonder why i make blue jokes about you.

**Nephlite** · 2014-10-28 23:06

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

Take your jade colored glasses off and read what I wrote. Stop being so hostile in your responses. It's a discussion and I was making observations. I feel like I need to say it more than once. Read what I wrote.

How many times have I said that I don't have the answers? How many times have I asked questions in here just for you to come in here all cocky and hostile telling me and many others how stupid we are? I thought we agreed that you would stop raging at everyone and I would stop posting my immediate reactions full of vitriol and anger. I have held up my side.

I mentioned the car chase thing as a comparison to point out that response with force is not always the best policy. It is sometimes necessary but I think it is used too often as a first-line policy. Aggregate charges because the officer is angry is another possible point of contention. This is the kind of stuff we are here to discuss. We are not here to be told by a police officer with a chip on his shoulder how stupid we are for asking questions and discussing the very thing this thread is all about.

You're the one getting butt hurt off of reality, my friend. Stop reading in to things and grow some thick skin. You asked, I responded. It's not pretty, quaint, easy, or "politically correct" when you're answering questions like that, that in themselves have undertones of hostility.

Also, police chases and someone actively attacking people with a knife are two separate things. On one, you can minimize a threat by calling off. On the other, you allow that person to continue to attack people. How would that make you look if you're the police and stand there allowing someone to attack someone with a knife.

Originally Posted by BaneTheBrawler

that's because this is the ridiculous police news thread. if you want a feelgood police thread go fucking make one. this thread is literally composed of the scum of your profession and you spend your time defending these chuckleheads. and then you wonder why i make blue jokes about you.

Mmmm... And people wonder why I'm hostile. Quick edit, but I still know how you feel.

**NynJa** · 2014-10-29 00:32

Originally Posted by Correction

They didn't use the dog on him why? Do cops in Michigan not use a tool designed to save officer lives because they value its life over that of a mentally ill black man?

So you advocate the violence/death of animals, good to know where you stand.

**BaneTheBrawler** · 2014-10-29 00:43

Originally Posted by NynJa

So you advocate the violence/death of animals, good to know where you stand.

Tully! Tully! Tully! Redfish!

**notorious bum** · 2014-10-30 10:14

Last month, 22-year-old Darrien Hunt was shot and killed by officers in Saratoga Springs, Utah, while carrying a toy sword. Police claimed Hunt lunged at them, but a new state autopsy released by Hunt’s lawyer finds that Hunt was shot 5 times in the back, and a sixth time on his left hip towards the back.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...autopsy-finds/