Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[BaneTheBrawler]

if thats what passes for an argument around here, no wonder the mods wanted to close this section.


in the rest of the universe, that is what is called "satire." satire is related to jokes.

if you're trying to be funy right now, nynja, you are. but not in the way you think.

[NynJa]

if you're trying to be funy right now, nynja, you are. but not in the way you think.

Okay then, once again, if you want to debate and discuss: What would be the proper course of action, instead of just hating on cops since thats clearly all you know how to do? You have a guy who's just stuffed drugs in his mouth and theres a legitimate threat he will attempt to swallow them whole. What do you do, since you have a problem with the actions taken (I do too, but I dont have this answer) to prevent them from swallowing those drugs and most likely choking to death on them?

Bear in mind, if the cop stands by and says "okay, swallow them, have fun" and they choke and die, this same bullshit will come up how a cop let someone choke themselves.

[BaneTheBrawler]

now that you've calmed down and started reading, fine, i'll bite. its a shitty situation, there are no guarantees. i can think of several ways that might work better than punching, but then again, they might not. punching repeatedly is just such a ridiculously brutal/simpleminded solution that i was moved to make fun. that's literally all there is to the thought process, not that youre one to judge.

[NynJa]

i can think of several ways that might work better than punching

Okay, would you care to share them?

[Psion]

dunno about people, but whenever you want to feed a cat medicine, you squeeze either side of his jaws to force their mouth open. sure they hate it, but its an effective way to keep their mouth open. (our cat totally knows what bullshit pill pockets are and wont stand for them.)

[Niiro]

Also rather than using tasers officers should simply grab suspects by the nape of the neck, as doing so instinctively puts them in a calm and submissive state.

[Nephlite]

Since when is punching someone in the head/face the preferred method to prevent joking?

Depends on the agency, but it could be in their policy as justified. That's why this was released:

https://twitter.com/DenverPolice/sta...65808629116928

now that you've calmed down and started reading, fine, i'll bite. its a shitty situation, there are no guarantees. i can think of several ways that might work better than punching, but then again, they might not. punching repeatedly is just such a ridiculously brutal/simpleminded solution that i was moved to make fun. that's literally all there is to the thought process, not that youre one to judge.

I'm interested in this as well. You guys bash NynJa a lot for someone who brings up valid points.

[Acevalefor]

To use history as an example; It was within the magistrate's rights to have witches burned at the stake. It was within a slave owner's rights to abuse his slaves at will. It was within a landowner's rights to even own slaves in the first place.

How can you not see that it is wrong when a policy allows violence against a restrained man? Let the stupid fuck swallow the drugs (if he could even have swallowed something that big). Then it's on him when he gets sick as shit and has to be operated on. He can pay for it too as a part of his sentencing. If, on the other hand he could not have swallowed it, it becomes a waiting game while the cops do their reports and follow-up. He has to spit it out eventually. Adjust policies to let the subjects make their own stupid decisions to put themselves in jail. Beating the shit out of someone's face when you have them on distribution charges sounds like a good way to get the charges dropped or for this guy to get a payday instead of facing the correct consequences for his actions.

[Nephlite]

To use history as an example; It was within the magistrate's rights to have witches burned at the stake. It was within a slave owner's rights to abuse his slaves at will. It was within a landowner's rights to even own slaves in the first place.

How can you not see that it is wrong when a policy allows violence against a restrained man? Let the stupid fuck swallow the drugs (if he could even have swallowed something that big). Then it's on him when he gets sick as shit and has to be operated on. He can pay for it too as a part of his sentencing. If, on the other hand he could not have swallowed it, it becomes a waiting game while the cops do their reports and follow-up. He has to spit it out eventually. Adjust policies to let the subjects make their own stupid decisions to put themselves in jail. Beating the shit out of someone's face when you have them on distribution charges sounds like a good way to get the charges dropped or for this guy to get a payday instead of facing the correct consequences for his actions.

And history has been amended and fixed to correct those mistakes. It's convenient to leave out that portion of those antiquated laws and customs.

Even restrained people need to be controlled. I've seen people kick, bite, spit, run, break handcuffs, open car doors, pull weapons, all types of shit.

Let him swallow the drugs and die. Then the resulting civil suit and media circus from that shitstorm will make it better.

[Acevalefor]

I can see the headlines now! Dumbfuck gets caught with drugs and swallows them! Proceeds to die from his own actions!

So instead of hoping to amend and fix the mistakes in police policy, you staunchly support the policy and refuse to acknowledge that shit needs to change. Tow the blue line and follow policy. Don't worry about human rights as long as your precious policy says it's ok, that makes it right!

I need to stop posting when I am angry.

[hey]

And history has been amended and fixed to correct those mistakes. It's convenient to leave out that portion of those antiquated laws and customs.

Even restrained people need to be controlled. I've seen people kick, bite, spit, run, break handcuffs, open car doors, pull weapons, all types of shit.

Let him swallow the drugs and die. Then the resulting civil suit and media circus from that shitstorm will make it better.

Or find a way to get it out that doesn't involve punching him. It's not that hard.

[Zeb]

Or find a way to get it out that doesn't involve punching him. It's not that hard.

If it's not that hard, what is your solution to getting something out of someone's mouth before the have a chance to swallow it?

[NynJa]

If it's not that hard, what is your solution to getting something out of someone's mouth before the have a chance to swallow it?

I'm expecting an answer of "its not my job to figure that out".

I'm interested in this as well. You guys bash NynJa a lot for someone who brings up valid points.

It doesnt bother me, when these kids only response is plugging their ears with their fingers and going "LALALALALALA YOURE NOT WORTH THE NEURONS", its a pretty bold statement of "I have no fucking clue how to answer that, so I'll just bash you instead"

[Karbuncle]

"I have no fucking clue how to answer that, so I'll just bash you instead"

"This cop is sooo shit dumb man"
"How would you handle it, what is a good alternative?"
"U SUCH TROLL NYNJA SO DUMB".

Anyway... on this particular subject, I mean, that cop did kinda... punch hard... and, 6 times... I wouldn't want a grown man biting down on my hand so I sorta understand the dilemma here... but at the same time, the only other solution I could maybe think of is trying to pressure his jaw to force his mouth open while another officer grabs the item, It could have worked but IDK how much more risky to the officers or even possibly the man (fractured jaw if pushing too hard, dislocation, stuff like that, still better than dying of drug OD)... and if he bit on the officers hand it'd of not gone well for him still. This feels a bit like a shitty situation, though I'm certainly not going to defend him punching him that many times and hard enough to fracture/break his head.

[Nephlite]

I can see the headlines now! Dumbfuck gets caught with drugs and swallows them! Proceeds to die from his own actions!

So instead of hoping to amend and fix the mistakes in police policy, you staunchly support the policy and refuse to acknowledge that shit needs to change. Tow the blue line and follow policy. Don't worry about human rights as long as your precious policy says it's ok, that makes it right!

I need to stop posting when I am angry.

Well, there lies the problem, doesn't it? I don't think there's anything wrong with following policy and procedure, and until someone makes something better, I'm going to do what I can do.

YOU think there's a problem with the policy. There's years of research, hundreds of cases, years of training, and hundreds of man hours that go in to a policy for Use of Force for Police Officers and techniques to control people. Show ME why you think it's okay for someone to swallow a bag of heroin and possibly kill themselves, and what can be used to protect myself from liability. Also, show me how to take something out of someones mouth. Make a grown man do it. Also, tell that grown man to physically use his entire body to resist you while you do this.

Or find a way to get it out that doesn't involve punching him. It's not that hard.

If it's not that hard, what is your solution to getting something out of someone's mouth before the have a chance to swallow it?

I'm actually curious as to the answer.

Anyway... on this particular subject, I mean, that cop did kinda... punch hard... and, 6 times... I wouldn't want a grown man biting down on my hand so I sorta understand the dilemma here... but at the same time, the only other solution I could maybe think of is trying to pressure his jaw to force his mouth open while another officer grabs the item, It could have worked but IDK how much more risky to the officers or even possibly the man (fractured jaw if pushing too hard, dislocation, stuff like that, still better than dying of drug OD)... and if he bit on the officers hand it'd of not gone well for him still. This feels a bit like a shitty situation, though I'm certainly not going to defend him punching him that many times and hard enough to fracture/break his head.

It's difficult to do. Some people say you can activate the salivary gland with your thumb to force the mouth open, or use the hypoglossal pressure point to do it. That's also assuming the subject isn't moving his head, body, arms, whatever when you do it. Using your hands is pretty much moot. I've seen people use knives, pens, clipboards, CD cases, to try to force people's mouths open. Grabbing both sides of the cheeks and squeezing somewhat works. There's just very little to do except try your hardest to do it. And then, hope that someone doesn't attack you while you struggle with him.

[Acevalefor]

I never said take something out of his mouth. I said let the dumbfuck swallow it and he can deal with the consequences. In fact, everything he (or she) does is on him(her). Conversely, if you choose to try to pry his mouth open with your fists, that is on you. There is a very easy way to win here. You wait for him to spit it out and you have your evidence or you let him swallow it and he goes on the worst trip of his life or dies. No punching required! Fuck the media circus. Let them juggle and spit fire. Get your PIO to do his job and tell the public that another dumbass dealer swallowed his stash and died because of it.

[NynJa]

I never said take something out of his mouth. I said let the dumbfuck swallow it and he can deal with the consequences.

Are you serious? Like, really honestly fucking serious? And I'm not alluding to your sig.

"Cop lets drug dealer swallow their stash, dealer chokes and dies in process"

What kind of response do you expect from that? Instead of just having the public outcry about how a cop stood by and did nothing, I'm pretty sure its a cop's job to make sure that people DONT try to kill themselves.

[Nephlite]

I never said take something out of his mouth. I said let the dumbfuck swallow it and he can deal with the consequences. In fact, everything he (or she) does is on him(her). Conversely, if you choose to try to pry his mouth open with your fists, that is on you. There is a very easy way to win here. You wait for him to spit it out and you have your evidence or you let him swallow it and he goes on the worst trip of his life or dies. No punching required! Fuck the media circus. Let them juggle and spit fire. Get your PIO to do his job and tell the public that another dumbass dealer swallowed his stash and died because of it.

Read the definition of vicarious liability, and you'll see why we don't like people to kill themselves. I have friends who were targets of bogus civil liability suits that were on an unpaid status until it was resolved. Imagine being unpaid for months waiting for someone to either settle, or to fire you. If you quit, you lose the protection of the agency and the liability transfers directly to you.

[Acevalefor]

Are you serious? Like, really honestly fucking serious? And I'm not alluding to your sig.

"Cop lets drug dealer swallow their stash, dealer chokes and dies in process"

What kind of response do you expect from that? Instead of just having the public outcry about how a cop stood by and did nothing, I'm pretty sure its a cop's job to make sure that people DONT try to kill themselves.

This is all hypothetical Nynja.

I don't believe it should be a cop's job to make sure someone doesn't kill themselves. I also believe a person's actions to be their own responsibility. So, in this hypothetical worlds that I was speaking of to begin with, let the idiot swallow his drugs and kill himself. You won't get sympathy from the public for someone dying while trying to dispose of damning evidence against them. Maybe a Darwin award though.

[Acevalefor]

Read the definition of vicarious liability, and you'll see why we don't like people to kill themselves. I have friends who were targets of bogus civil liability suits that were on an unpaid status until it was resolved. Imagine being unpaid for months waiting for someone to either settle, or to fire you. If you quit, you lose the protection of the agency and the liability transfers directly to you.

Vicarious Liability seems to deal mostly with superiors having control of and, therefore, liability for their subordinate's actions. I can see how it is applied to law enforcement. It seems quite a stretch to pin the actions of someone on another person though. I disagree with the doctrine even being applied in corporations, let alone police work. It's a blame game. Fuck the blame game and start operating under the direct liability definition.

I want to see changes in the way the whole thing is handled. Overhaul the drug policy, set strict operating standards for police and media, hold everyone accountable for their actions, you know...the stuff that will never happen, so I argue about it on a message board.