Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Nephlite]

You do realize they are inside a restaurant right?

Just the fact those two "random idiots" have the time to relax and take a picture in a busy public space without police getting called on them in seconds and shot down is important.

Unless you have a news article where those two were arrested and thrown to the ground for doing that pose.

As to my earlier comment, yes it definitely applies more to John than Tamir. I don't think Tamir could have had his airsoft gun in any position that would have saved him. Cops didn't even stop the car before whipping out to shoot.

However, my point still stands, that if you are going to police in an open carry area, you can't claim "following your training" as an excuse when you shoot someone who was open carrying.

Cops don't get to decide what's lawful and what isn't.

I just wanna highlight this:

Cops don't get to decide what's lawful and what isn't.

That's the whole point of policing, or is that not what your specific definition of a police officer is?

^ this.

Motherfuckers are ready for WW3 in Chipotle. Unless it is some fake picture / PR thing / they were arrested, it's pretty obvious that's some biased shit.

See below:

I feel comfortable saying (since it's not likely to be remembered) that, iirc, that picture is from an event set up to exercise their second-amendment rights. Sort of a sit-in-open-carry combo thing. Pretty sure it was posted and talked about here when it happened. Probably in the Gun Violence thread, if you want to go looking for it. I don't. I don't recall much beyond that. Anyway, carry on.

Was about to post this. Thank you, Bane.

Some 2A Supporters like these guys are dumb fucks who don't have a clue as to the responsibilities you need to have when carrying a weapon. However, dismissing the hundreds of videos of these (oftentimes) white 2A supporters open carrying weapons and cops stopping them ALL the time, is pretty stupid. There's literally HUNDREDS of these videos, so saying it's only blacks carrying weapons is pretty silly.

There's only one difference: the mode of the call. Worrywart Nancy calling the cops saying a guy has a rifle slung over his shoulder walking down the street, and DumbassIGotanAgenda Citizen calling in and saying "There's a guy walking around Walmart with a gun and he's pointing it at people and threatening them." Stop and think. You're in an open carry state. What takes priority? Dispatchers are trained to ask these questions. What type of gun? Is he shooting? What direction is he traveling in? How many are injured?

Smaller one is an idiot, has his finger on the trigger. You do not have your fucking finger on the trigger unless you plan on shooting.

It looks like he's indexing properly. It's along the rail above the trigger guard.

[Charismatic]

That's the whole point of policing

[Nephlite]

You're saying I'm wrong? How about you explain what policing is?

[Charismatic]

You said it is 'the point' of policing.
That police must make these determinations and that the sole point of policing is for police to make these determination are two totally different arguments.

Lawmakers decide what is lawful and what is not, policing is to enforce the laws. The only reason any human person has to make any determination there is because we don't have robot police... yet.

[Karbuncle]

^ this.

Motherfuckers are ready for WW3 in Chipotle. Unless it is some fake picture / PR thing / they were arrested, it's pretty obvious that's some biased shit.

Understandably, but this is what i'm getting at. its a goddamn still photo with no context at all, but its being posted like a "Ha, gotcha" as if its almost purposefully left with a complete lack of context and meaning as a metaphor for his argument.

Sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, I know thats pretty common today.

.

We agree on some points, but not on this photo. Sorry, one picture, with no context, no article, no information of any kind regarding the situation or anything shown at all except the picture itself is not anything more than anecdotal bullshit which would be shot down and laughed out of BG in any other section of these forums.

Again, smart posters come to die here it seems, not only are you people posting flimsy BS, you're defending it like a 1-poster raging about himself being in the gimp thread.

And since it appears common sense dies here too, I'm not saying that anything the police are doing is okay... or that Neph is 100% right or that Black people should feel safe walking around with Semi-Auto/Auto Rifles or that its right that this race discrimination exists in the police force(omg neutrality burn him)... I'm just saying, this photo doesn't prove shit other than desperation. There are better arguments here, aim higher is all I'm getting at. You're better than this.

[Nephlite]

Understandably, but this is what i'm getting at. its a goddamn still photo with no context at all, but its being posted like a "Ha, gotcha" as if its almost purposefully left with a complete lack of context and meaning as a metaphor for his argument.

Sorry if that hurts anyones feelings, I know thats pretty common today.

It's pretty common. I'm sad that this is used against me a lot

You said it is 'the point' of policing.
That police must make these determinations and that the sole point of policing is for police to make these determination are two totally different arguments.

Lawmakers decide what is lawful and what is not, policing is to enforce the laws. The only reason any human person has to make any determination there is because we don't have robot police... yet.

That's something Ksandra didn't clarify, so if that's what the point is then I apologize.

[mightyg]

Usually just lurk in here but holy shit at Neph defending the Tamir Rice drive by shooting. I remember playing with an airsoft gun with my friends and the cop came up, checked out what we had. said to be careful and stay in the woods next to the park and went on his way (I'm white). There is no way anyone much less a 12 year old would have the situational awareness to either freeze and or drop the gun in the 3 seconds that cop car pulled RIGHT next to him. Speaking of that, who the fuck pulls up right next to someone they suspect is armed? If I was at a BBQ with a knife in my hand and a cop came flying in yelling "Drop the knife!" I'd be dead before I could even open my mouth in that much time. Doing what he's trained to do my ass. So many poor decisions by the adults involved.

[Nephlite]

Usually just lurk in here but holy shit at Neph defending the Tamir Rice drive by shooting. I remember playing with an airsoft gun with my friends and the cop came up, checked out what we had. said to be careful and stay in the woods next to the park and went on his way (I'm white). There is no way anyone much less a 12 year old would have the situational awareness to either freeze and or drop the gun in the 3 seconds that cop car pulled RIGHT next to him. Speaking of that, who the fuck pulls up right next to someone they suspect is armed? If I was at a BBQ with a knife in my hand and a cop came flying in yelling "Drop the knife!" I'd be dead before I could even open my mouth in that much time. Doing what he's trained to do my ass. So many poor decisions by the adults involved.

There's a lot of different aspects to this case that are unknown at this time.

What's known is the caller said that there was a young man waving a gun around in a park. He said the gun was "probably fake", but this was never relayed to the officers. As such, the point is irrelevant to the dynamics of police training. A gun is a gun until it can be proven otherwise. Rice had a realistic looking airsoft gun. Additionally, the officers did not know exactly where Rice was except he was near the gazebo's. The only thing I can speculate is they happened upon him. Police go straight to the location, and if it's not apparent where he is, then that's what the canvass is for. They pull up, spot him, and stop.

What is speculation, and may not be true, is the statement made by the police is they told Rice to put his hands up three times before he reaches in his waistband. There's only about two seconds from stop to shoot where this happens, so I don't think that happened. That action alone, however, is Deadly Force according to police tactics. You shoot before you are shot. If indeed a handle of a gun is visible when the shooting occurs, then I'm sorry, but it's a justified shooting according to the way we are trained.

Some other things that I have heard but haven't been verified:

The police in the vicinity used a PA system to order Rice to drop the weapon from a distance, and move out of the gazebo area with his hands in the air. Allegedly, the officer who shot Rice (Loehmann) saw Rice had the weapon on the park bench table. When Rice did not comply with the order, they moved in.

That's my take on it. Would I have done the same thing? Probably not. The only thing I can speculate is that when Loehmann exited the cruiser, he saw Rice pulling the object from his waistband, which was a realistic looking airsoft gun, which caused the fear of a Deadly Force threat. The fact that it was learned after the fact that it was an airsoft gun is irrelevant. The fact that a reasonable person believes he is in danger when he observes another pulling a firearm from his waistband as he is approaching him is the only factor determining whether or not the officer is culpable in murder or negligent homicide.

[notorious bum]

Damn, I didn't know this happened

[Qalbert]

Understandably, but this is what i'm getting at. its a goddamn still photo with no context at all

sorry for assuming people would remember something that was previously posted about in the section and be able to infer my meaning from it?

[Dimmauk]

You're saying I'm wrong? How about you explain what policing is?

I AM THE LAW!

[Karbuncle]

sorry for assuming people would remember something that was previously posted about in the section and be able to infer my meaning from it?

Yes, it was about carry laws and Neph mentioned what that involves such as holsters and etc. But you posted the poop deck equivalent "I eyeballed it for a bit".

Also, heres the context I believe that would suffice.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...en-carry-texas

[Qalbert]

I'm saying we fucking talked about that when it happened, so I mistakenly assumed people were smart enough to recall it and not need me to spell it out.
so here goes:
the consequences a white adult faced for brandishing a real weapon was being told he couldn't get a burrito, and then a bunch of people standing up for him and saying he has the right to carry his rifle and people can deal with it. a 12-year old black kid with a toy gun was killed and people call it a good shoot and say a kid should have better judgment than to be playing with a toy gun. the system is fucked. even if you make the absurd assumption that cops themselves are bastions of non-biased decision making, this just goes back to my previous point that using a single witness account as justification to go in guns blazing is stupid, because society as a whole is full of inherent racial biases, assumptions, and stereotypes. that's why a white dude can casually walk around waving an assault rifle, and people fucking support him for exercising his 2nd amendment rights, but if they think a black guy has a gun, even one they think is fake, they're calling the cops.

[Waraji]

I AM THE LAW!

I think Qalbert's response pretty much covers all the points I wanted to make. Inherent racism in the system. If we ignore it long enough, it will go away, right?

[Ksandra]

That's something Ksandra didn't clarify, so if that's what the point is then I apologize.

Unless you have the reading comprehension of a potato, there was no other way to interpret my statement besides this:

Lawmakers decide what is lawful and what is not, policing is to enforce the laws.

There's only one difference: the mode of the call. Worrywart Nancy calling the cops saying a guy has a rifle slung over his shoulder walking down the street, and DumbassIGotanAgenda Citizen calling in and saying "There's a guy walking around Walmart with a gun and he's pointing it at people and threatening them." Stop and think. You're in an open carry state. What takes priority? Dispatchers are trained to ask these questions. What type of gun? Is he shooting? What direction is he traveling in? How many are injured?

If cops are wigging the fuck out and KILLING PEOPLE based off a call that they haven't even taken the time to check the legitimacy of, then they have poor training and/or suck at being a cop.




Your posts sound like cops have zero training in how the brain works when relaying information.

People lie, people embellish the truth, often without even realizing they are doing it. The majority of people such at telling the actual truth, and it's pretty fucking hard to read how truthful someone is being over a phone. You can't see them, you can't look for any tells.

[Waraji]

Easier to pull the trigger than put yourself in a dangerous situation you don't know is actually dangerous. Yeah the gun could be fake, it could also be real. Much rather the subject in question be laying dead on the ground before I find out if its fake, or if its real it may be too late for me. Serve and protect (oneself). Investigating is hard.

[Nephlite]

Unless you have the reading comprehension of a potato, there was no other way to interpret my statement besides this:





If cops are wigging the fuck out and KILLING PEOPLE based off a call that they haven't even taken the time to check the legitimacy of, then they have poor training and/or suck at being a cop.




Your posts sound like cops have zero training in how the brain works when relaying information.

People lie, people embellish the truth, often without even realizing they are doing it. The majority of people such at telling the actual truth, and it's pretty fucking hard to read how truthful someone is being over a phone. You can't see them, you can't look for any tells.

People lie, embellish the truth, and people die. Sorry, that's cold hard reality. Until murders from gun violence are zero in this country, it will never change. Another Aurora? Navy Yard? Columbine? VA Tech? Sandy Hook? It's not a matter of if, it's when and where. And guess what? The police will be there like we always are and ready to run in head first. Where will you be when it happens?

Additionally, a black guy called in Tamir Rice. Danger doesn't know any color. There's literally hundreds of examples of this happening to whites just as often. You stick your hand in your waist and pretend you have a gun, you're getting shot. And no, my life is not worth me sacrificing myself or others banking on your realistic gun being an airsoft gun.

[Ksandra]

People lie, embellish the truth, and people die. Sorry, that's cold hard reality.

Why yes, sherlock, we are fighting to reduce the dying part. Why not you?

Another Aurora? Navy Yard? Columbine? VA Tech? Sandy Hook? It's not a matter of if, it's when and where.

Unless you are trying to become a fox news contributor and using BG as a reference, stop with the appeal to pity bs that has nothing to do with these cases. Do you have any proof whatsoever that MB, Rice, Garner, etc. were going to shoot up a school if they lived? Are we supposed to pity those victims of mass shootings, but not the victims of idiotic actions by the police?

The police will be there like we always are and ready to run in head first. Where will you be when it happens?

You can't be serious with this question, or have no idea what I do for a living. I would say my life has a higher chance of dying in a mass shooting than yours.

Additionally, a black guy called in Tamir Rice.

This has no relevance. At all. Why the fuck would you bring it up? Did I say only white people lie? Tamir's death is justified more because someone black called it in, really? what the fuck, man.

There's literally hundreds of examples of this happening to whites just as often.

That is not justification to keep doing it. This doesn't mean the system isn't broken.

And no, my life is not worth me sacrificing myself or others banking on your realistic gun being an airsoft gun.

Then you shouldn't be a cop. Especially one that works in an open carry area. (not sure if you do, but the cops that killed Rice did)

[Melena]

Sorry Ksandra, but as someone who was raised by an officer, one of the first things I was taught as a kid is you don't wave around a realistic looking toy gun. I've seen way more examples than I care to admit of toy guns being real. The fact that the dumbshit kept it in his waistband, removed the orange tip, and tried to draw it when he was told to put his hands up lead to him being shot.

In fact, here's a bunch of "toy" guns that are actually real.

http://ioneglobalgrind.files.wordpre...ng?w=540&h=389

http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/23139802_SA.jpg

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dca//images/...toy_gun_ad.jpg

http://ioneglobalgrind.files.wordpre..._kitty_xm8.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d8Bwn56rv-Q/maxresdefault.jpg

[archibaldcrane]

and tried to draw it when he was told to put his hands up

Allegedly