Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Melena]

which if he allegedly did (remember, none of us were there), he pretty much signed his own death sentence.

[Ksandra]

stuff

1. This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone is raised by a cop.

2. He was a victim of a flyby shooting. Let's not pretend the cops would have done anything differently than what happened. They saw the gun and shot, doesn't matter where it was.

3. I am totally and 100% fine with more regulations on what guns look like. That doesn't mean kids get to die while it is the way it currently is.

4. I don't even like the concept of open carry. At all. But if your job is to uphold the law and the law says that people can open carry, then that puts it in the cops to find out whether the person has a right to carry or if even the gun is really. And yes that will put them further in danger.

Sorry, that's cold hard reality. ^_~

If neph wants to fight to get open carry laws removed I will be right there behind him. But while it is a law the cops need to be trained better in how to uphold that law.

[Melena]

1. This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone is raised by a cop.

2. He was a victim of a flyby shooting. Let's not pretend the cops would have done anything differently than what happened. They saw the gun and shot, doesn't matter where it was.

3. I am totally and 100% fine with more regulations on what guns look like. That doesn't mean kids get to die while it is the way it currently is.

4. I don't even like the concept of open carry. At all. But if your job is to uphold the law and the law says that people can open carry, then that puts it in the cops to find out whether the person has a right to carry or if even the gun is really. And yes that will put them further in danger.

Sorry, that's cold hard reality. ^_~

If neph wants to fight to get open carry laws removed I will be right there behind him. But while it is a law the cops need to be trained better in how to uphold that law.

And open carry doesn't allow in a waistband. Hell in california if you have an open carry permit, the gun can't even be loaded and police are allowed to search the gun to make sure it's not loaded. Plus 12 years old, he doesn't have an open carry permit due to his age. If you don't want to get shot, don't point a gun at people and wave it around in a park. Going by what has been released on the 911 messages and what was relayed to the police, we pretty much got a cruel case of darwinism.

Also being raised or not raised is irrelevant to what I said about bringing a firearm out in the open, fake or real, it's asking for trouble. It's common fucking sense. Glad to know you glossed over the examples of real guns made to look fake and think everyone who has a gun should just be searched first, cause you can't run the risk of it being a fake.......

In the end, yes it's tragic. It sucks that it turns out he was shot and killed for having a toy gun. But of course people will overlook the fact that if the idiot 12 year old left the bb gun at home, he'd still be alive.

[BerenTebogo]

He was 12. Clearly his fully developed reasoning skills as an esteemed man of 12 should've served him better.

Damn you, Tamir. How dare you not think this through.

[BerenTebogo]

If that wasn't clear enough, only one party was capable of being legally held responsible for their actions.

Protip: it's not the dead one.

[Charismatic]

He was 12. Clearly his fully developed reasoning skills as an esteemed man of 12 should've served him better.

Damn you, Tamir. How dare you not think this through.

Change it to 12 I guess.

[Ksandra]

And open carry doesn't allow in a waistband. Hell in california if you have an open carry permit, the gun can't even be loaded and police are allowed to search the gun to make sure it's not loaded. Plus 12 years old, he doesn't have an open carry permit due to his age.

But Tamir wasn't in California. You can't apply california law to ohio law.

I am trying to find the exact code but from looking at it

1. You need to be 18 (how did the cops know he wasn't?)

2. You don't need a permit to open carry in Ohio unless it is in a car.

I cannot find anything that says where the gun needs to be for Ohio law. Feel free to find it. My google is failing.


As well, everything Sath said. Again, people need to spend some time doing brain developmental research on adolescence before coming in here pretending to be an expert in what they know and don't know. You knew it? great. A+ for you. A kid is still dead. And the punishment did not fit the crime. At all.

[Melena]

But Tamir wasn't in California. You can't apply california law to ohio law.

I am trying to find the exact code but from looking at it

1. You need to be 18 (how did the cops know he wasn't?)

2. You don't need a permit to open carry in Ohio unless it is in a car.

I cannot find anything that says where the gun needs to be for Ohio law. Feel free to find it. My google is failing.


As well, everything Sath said. Again, people need to spend some time doing brain developmental research on adolescence before coming in here pretending to be an expert in what they know and don't know. You knew it? great. A+ for you. A kid is still dead. And the punishment did not fit the crime. At all.

I know i can't apply cali law to ohio law but I know ohio law a 12 year old can't have a carry conceal.

[Krandor]

Aside from this, but any state not requiring a permit for Open Carry is fucking stupid.

[hey]

Aside from this, but any state not requiring a permit for Open Carry is fucking stupid.

The best is the states that allow concealed carry without a permit.

[Ksandra]

I know i can't apply cali law to ohio law but I know ohio law a 12 year old can't have a carry conceal.

How did they know he was 12 at the time? Even if that is the case, he doesn't deserve to be killed over it. There is a reason children have different sentences than adults. Everything that happened happened in two seconds. I can't believe anyone would defend that. The police didn't have the time to ascertain any of the facts. We only know them after Rice was killed.

Aside from this, but any state not requiring a permit for Open Carry is fucking stupid.

I do agree, but again, I think open/concealed carry is fucking stupid to begin with.

edit: As an aside, if I were a cop in that area I'd be doing everything I could to get the laws changed, or try to move, or quit, though I fully understand the last two aren't easy. At the same time, even though I consider it a BS law, I would still not be ok with the events that happened.

[Melena]

How did they know he was 12 at the time? Even if that is the case, he doesn't deserve to be killed over it. There is a reason children have different sentences than adults. Everything that happened happened in two seconds. I can't believe anyone would defend that. The police didn't have the time to ascertain any of the facts. We only know them after Rice was killed.

I dunno, maybe i'm good at guessing ages, but he doesn't even look like he could be 14 in the pictures shown in the news.

[notorious bum]

I wonder if they'll apologize for intentionally painting peaceful protestors with giant red targets on their backs?

Baltimore FOX Affiliate Caught Faking "Kill a Cop" Protest Chant

[Gokku]

This is like the violence against lgbt thread it's down to "this is terrible and should not happen to anyone". Vs good shoot/ cops can do no wrong.

Does anyone else have a issue with the lack of actual law enforcement or even oversight in these cases?

[Ksandra]

I dunno, maybe i'm good at guessing ages, but he doesn't even look like he could be 14 in the pictures shown in the news.

I agree he doesn't look 18 in pictures, but you must remember we are getting to take the time looking at a still photo. They rushed in and shot in two seconds.

[Charismatic]

I agree he doesn't look 18 in pictures, but you must remember we are getting to take the time looking at a still photo. They rushed in and shot in two seconds.

The funny thing is that it doesn't matter how old he was, the response wasn't what one would consider measured.
Even less so if it was obvious that he was a youngster.

[Ksandra]

The funny thing is that it doesn't matter how old he was, the response wasn't what one would consider measured.
Even less so if it was obvious that he was a youngster.

I completely agree and mentioned that earlier. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. And that keeps happening, which means something needs to be fixed. And stat, too. Dead people don't get to live the rest of their lives. They don't get to "reform". They don't get to prove their worth to society after being punished. Outside of torture, it is basically the worst punishment the cops can give a person, and they can't take it back. Sure, they can give money to the families, but nothing can be givento the dead as payment for this mistake. So it damn well be justified appropriately imo.

[Charismatic]

I completely agree and mentioned that earlier. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. And that keeps happening, which means something needs to be fixed. And stat, too. Dead people don't get to live the rest of their lives. They don't get to "reform". They don't get to prove their worth to society after being punished. Outside of torture, it is basically the worst punishment the cops can give a person, and they can't take it back. Sure, they can give money to the families, but nothing can be givento the dead as payment for this mistake. So it damn well be justified appropriately imo.

Interestingly enough, I'm not even really quite going there with it.
I've asked all of the policemen and women that I know one simple question with regard to the Tamir Rice shooting.

If you perceived the suspect as a threat (knowing he's armed and dangerous)... if you had no intention of escalating the situation, would you drive right up next to him and hop out like that or would you attempt to engage from a different position? Not a single one of them says they would have rolled up like that; also strikes me as similar to the case where the guy was reaching into his vehicle for his wallet after being asked to show his ID and got shot.

The reaction was too fast.

The reasoning behind what the cop did in the situation after he placed himself in it was sound but what his stalwart defenders often forget is the fact that he placed himself in it.

[jmc]

While 12 does not seem like a age that a child can do any wrong, its pretty far from the truth.

I don't know how Cleveland is, but in Boston i've arrested children with actual firearms. Usually carrying it for a older brother/friend/family member thinking the police would not check a child. So just because its a child, doesn't mean you can just assume the weapon is a fake.

*edit* mis-quote

[Rhinox]

My confusion is why the first course of action is automatically death.

Even if the a perp has a gun what's to stop a cop from shooting him before he has a chance to disarm? Look I get it. Cops have families they want to go home to as well but the problem is all the cop has to do is say he felt threatened when in reality the guy could be reaching for the gun to disarm himself and all the dickhead cops will say good shoot and nothing will ever happen.


As long as cops police cops there will always be animosity and distrust of law enforcement.