Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Dantrag]

Based off the reaction he just posted, I wouldn't think so. It's not an unreasonable reaction in my book, and could save your life someday. They teach us similar tactics in the Academy sometimes when you "happen upon" activity. The problem is, action is always faster than reaction. If the subject already has the gun out and pointed at me, I'm already behind. Distracting the subject, waiting for an opportunity to attack, or just simply showing defense can and has saved many police officer lives before. People accuse Police Officers of having itchy trigger fingers, but I can assure you that we aren't the only ones. The smallest provocation can set someone off who has a gun, especially if they're untrained, they're children, or suffering some type of debilitation.

How often can you rely on hands up back away type tactic? In cases like above I'm sure more often than not, but it seems like everyone just wants to jump the gun and shoot. I'm not saying don't try and hide and get out of the way, but showing you're hands and completely backing away as the "always" situation doesn't seem very safe.

[Nephlite]

It's definitely not always. I could sit here and type out one scenario and give you literally, a million solutions to that scenario.

The idea is you have to be objective. I don't always agree with Maz, but his tactic is something I have learned before, so I can sympathize with his response as being legit. Would I necessarily do that in this situation? Probably not. I can be honest and say the old man would be as dead as doornails if I were in the officers shoes. At the same time, I can't say that it WILL happen like that either.

There's far too many factors that would go in to it and my reasoning for doing it or not doing it, and that I can't put an absolute or a "definitive" answer on what exactly I would do. I would just -do-. I can give you examples of what I would do on paper, or what I am trained to do, or what the expectation is, or what the law says I can do, or what I know I can do by policy, or what I would do if X happened.

I cannot discount that any one of the billion things I would do, would just so happen to be what someone else would do in identical circumstances, either. If Maz was my partner responding to this, I would hope he would do something similar to me, or our communication was good enough so we can mutually respond to this in an equal capacity to solve this problem. I still cannot discount his perceptions and response, and I put my utter and absolute trust in his ability, right down to the core.

Hope that rant makes sense. TL;DR it might not seem like the best response given the circumstances, but it's not wrong.

[noblemountain]

This happened in the town over from me...

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...d_by_madi.html

The girl I'm dating teaches yoga to this guy's daughter in law. Crazy.

[Nephlite]

This happened in the town over from me...

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/201...d_by_madi.html

The girl I'm dating teaches yoga to this guy's daughter in law. Crazy.

An update to this incident:

http://www.waaytv.com/appnews/madiso...tml?TNNoMobile

Madison officer charged with assault for use of force incident

DISON, Ala. (WAAY) - The police officer placed on leave after an incident that left an Indian man hospitalized last week has been charged with third-degree assault.

Police Chief Larry Muncey said Thursday afternoon the officer's actions when he threw Sureshbhai Patel, 57, on the ground did not meet the standards of the Madison Police Department. Muncey said he would recommend Officer Eric Parker's termination from the department.

Both dash-cam videos capture it pretty well. Guy couldn't speak English, and likely didn't know what was happening during the contact. I see no justifiable reason for the take down used by the officer, so good on the charges and termination part.

[Byrthnoth]

Officer's first mistake was being unable to tell Indians apart from Africans. Shouldn't have slept through the basic training.

[Nephlite]

Officer's first mistake was being unable to tell Indians apart from Africans. Shouldn't have slept through the basic training.

You should listen to the 911 call. It's pretty fucked up.

There's an argument whether or not the stop was justified because a call for suspicious behavior isn't enough for a Terry Stop. The short answer is no, and the victim has more than enough to sue the fuck out of the agency for a 4th Amendment violation.

[Dantrag]

It's definitely not always. I could sit here and type out one scenario and give you literally, a million solutions to that scenario.

The idea is you have to be objective. I don't always agree with Maz, but his tactic is something I have learned before, so I can sympathize with his response as being legit. Would I necessarily do that in this situation? Probably not. I can be honest and say the old man would be as dead as doornails if I were in the officers shoes. At the same time, I can't say that it WILL happen like that either.

There's far too many factors that would go in to it and my reasoning for doing it or not doing it, and that I can't put an absolute or a "definitive" answer on what exactly I would do. I would just -do-. I can give you examples of what I would do on paper, or what I am trained to do, or what the expectation is, or what the law says I can do, or what I know I can do by policy, or what I would do if X happened.

I cannot discount that any one of the billion things I would do, would just so happen to be what someone else would do in identical circumstances, either. If Maz was my partner responding to this, I would hope he would do something similar to me, or our communication was good enough so we can mutually respond to this in an equal capacity to solve this problem. I still cannot discount his perceptions and response, and I put my utter and absolute trust in his ability, right down to the core.

Hope that rant makes sense. TL;DR it might not seem like the best response given the circumstances, but it's not wrong.

I appreciate your response.

[archibaldcrane]

Is this where we're doing the rock thrower shooting?

http://nypost.com/2015/02/12/homeles...ead-by-police/

[archibaldcrane]

[Nephlite]

Probably going to follow the same line of protocol applied to the Darren Wilson/Michael Brown shooting. Deadly Force/Serious Bodily Injury assault with the initial contact (first part of the video near the cruiser). They followed the continuum to try less-lethal (Taser, which was ineffective) and it appears one officer went hands on before the deceased disengaged and threw another rock at the officers. They fired at him then when he was on the other side of the cruiser from the Lethal Cover position in the front. When he fled, turning towards the officers near the sub shop, it looks like he was winding up to throw again, but was shot before he could complete it. That would satisfy the ongoing threat portion of the Deadly Force continuum, similar to Brown when he turned and charged Wilson.

The grey line/unknown is whether or not he still had a rock at the second discharge, or if his hand motions went towards the waistband. I can't verify, but someone mentioned in a different forum that one of the initial 911 calls said the deceased had a firearm. If I find anything to substantiate that, I'll share it.

[Mazmaz]

>rocks
>Deadly Force

I guess we're Israel now

[NynJa]

Can we throw rocks at you and see if you change your tune on that matter?

inb4: personal attacks

[Nephlite]

>rocks
>Deadly Force

I guess we're Israel now

Guess I'm wooshing the Israel part...

Throwing rocks at someone is absolutely qualified as Serious Bodily Harm/Deadly Force. You can easily kill someone, blow out an eye socket, cave a skull in, knock them out, all kinds of shit. And, if you look at the first portion of the video, that wasn't some tiny little rock he chucked at them. That thing was easily the size of a softball.

[BaneTheBrawler]

iirc, the Israeli opened fire on (and killed) some people because a Palestinian kid was throwing fist-sized rocks at main battle tanks. could be remembering that wrong. anyway, that's off-topic and really old to boot.

[Rhinox]

Guess I'm wooshing the Israel part...

Throwing rocks at someone is absolutely qualified as Serious Bodily Harm/Deadly Force. You can easily kill someone, blow out an eye socket, cave a skull in, knock them out, all kinds of shit. And, if you look at the first portion of the video, that wasn't some tiny little rock he chucked at them. That thing was easily the size of a softball.

A Rock.


there was 3 cowardly police officers afraid to bum rush the guy.. with a fucking rock.4


You're part of the problem.

instead of saying yeah those guys might have gone overboard you justify it.

btw Rocks the size of softballs?

apparently this is the victim




you have some softball sized balls trying to grasp at those straws

[archibaldcrane]

It was a boomerang rock Rhinox, he was still a lethal threat after throwing it.

[Mazmaz]

[Nephlite]

A Rock.


there was 3 cowardly police officers afraid to bum rush the guy.. with a fucking rock.4


You're part of the problem.

instead of saying yeah those guys might have gone overboard you justify it.

btw Rocks the size of softballs?

apparently this is the victim




you have some softball sized balls trying to grasp at those straws

Well, I would argue that if you don't think a rock can't be a dangerous or deadly weapon, your perception of the world is limited to one who's never experienced that type of behavior. Controlling people is not easy, and I already pointed out they went through empty hand tactics and a Taser to control him, and he continued to resist. So what's the expectation? Wait for an officer to get hit in the head and die from a rock being thrown at them before they upgrade to lethal force? Unacceptable expectation, and anyone who has that expectation needs a serious reality check.

Also, "cowards" don't run to stuff, they run away. I didn't see a citizen trying to stop the guy, I saw police officers doing it. Does the behavior have to continue and someone has to get killed before it ends?

And yes, that was a softball sized rock. You should watch the video before sprouting off with hyperbole.

[archibaldcrane]

It's basically the SOP for how to deal with mentally ill people as a cop. Wait for him to do something that allows you to shoot him to death, then do so.

[Nephlite]

It's basically the SOP for how to deal with mentally ill people as a cop. Wait for him to do something that allows you to shoot him to death, then do so.

I want to know what your solution is aside from what they tried to do, and failed. If you try to control a person without using lethal force, and he continues to resist up to him using lethal force, what then? Just let him do it?