Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Xno Kappa]

As someone with four deployments to Iraq/Afghanistan who's been blown up/shot at left and right, as well as a current federal agent who routinely apprehends/interrogates rapists and murderers; the comparison between the two are fucking retarded.

[AidenCarby]

But can you Dougie?

[Nephlite]

Having rocks thrown at you is not reasonable fear enough to use deadly force. If a person thinks that then they should not be a cop.

This concept is not that fucking hard.

Not everyone deserves to be a cop. Wake up and realize you are setting the bar way too low on what standards we should have.

This is not something I've personally set as a bar for myself. People who are far more qualified than you and I set that bar, because they understand and know the dynamics of perceptions change from person to person. That concept is difficult, but not unreasonable.

As someone with four deployments to Iraq/Afghanistan who's been blown up/shot at left and right, as well as a current federal agent who routinely apprehends/interrogates rapists and murderers; the comparison between the two are fucking retarded.

Thank you.

[Ksandra]

This is not something I've personally set as a bar for myself. People who are far more qualified than you and I set that bar, because they understand and know the dynamics of perceptions change from person to person. That concept is difficult, but not unreasonable.

And we are saying we want that to change. We all know what the standard is. We see it on the news everyday with these people not being punished. I don't think anyone here is claiming these people are somehow below the standard given by those who are the head of the police.

We are fighting to have that set higher, and you seem pretty settled in just wanting to claim "oh don't shoot the messenger, guys. You just don't understand, this is the bar." We know the bar. We don't like it. Are we not allowed to fight for change because we aren't actually in the police force? That logic would be head to the wall dumb.

[Karbuncle]

Anyone ever seen Robocop II(or 3?). That part where they decide to reprogram his AI based on what the public wants from him as a cop, asking him to help rescue cats and play with kids and etc... until he's got like 500 directives and it just completely fucks him up and he's completely useless and restricted to the point he can't even do his primary job, policing, at all? That's all I think about when people suggest how cops should and should not handle their jobs/situations... best intentions aside they have no idea what the hell they're talking about and in most cases their suggestion would simply cripple police from actually doing their jobs.

Most that is, not all of the suggestions are bad, and despite my posts here, I do agree with a lot of the points raised here as I do find it a bit scary how much an officer can get away with. I know that they need some leniency and rules to protect officers, but sometimes I do think they're very wide laws.

And we are saying we want that to change. We all know what the standard is. We see it on the news everyday with these people not being punished. I don't think anyone here is claiming these people are somehow below the standard given by those who are the head of the police.

We are fighting to have that set higher, and you seem pretty settled in just wanting to claim "oh don't shoot the messenger, guys. You just don't understand, this is the bar." We know the bar. We don't like it. Are we not allowed to fight for change because we aren't actually in the police force? That logic would be head to the wall dumb.

I don't disagree with you, but what fields/requirements do you feel have too low a standard? Specifically mind you, specific standards, where they are now, and where they should be at as your goal.

I often times find myself thinking much the same thing, that maybe if there were stricter psychological evaluations. But a lot of these things, stress under pressure, deescalating, these things are rarely born talents. They are taught through experience. Most of these stories people post here, or at least a good number I've read, involve rookies. If we drummed out every rookie whos made a mistake we wouldn't have a police force capable of anything. I'm not saying they should be getting away with murder for being a rookie, but i'm only implying a lot of these things are due to lack of experience and judgment in these situations.

And I'm sure none of you are too stupid to not understand that while yes, these people get practice in the academy and they try hard to train you for it... theory and reality aren't always the same and sometimes it takes real experience to build someone up.

I'd love to read the news and not see any stories about some junior cop blasting someone for holding a snickers bar too close to his hip just as much as you guys honestly, if anything Neph would at least be able to rest his typing finger here :\

[Nephlite]

And we are saying we want that to change. We all know what the standard is. We see it on the news everyday with these people not being punished. I don't think anyone here is claiming these people are somehow below the standard given by those who are the head of the police.

We are fighting to have that set higher, and you seem pretty settled in just wanting to claim "oh don't shoot the messenger, guys. You just don't understand, this is the bar." We know the bar. We don't like it. Are we not allowed to fight for change because we aren't actually in the police force? That logic would be head to the wall dumb.

And I'm afraid the bar won't change. For better or worse, it won't change until things change on a much higher level than you and me can begin to comprehend. End the war on drugs, and that'll solve some of it. It won't stop 1.5 guns per citizen in the US, some of which are used to murder people every day. People have tried to change it before, and the Supreme Court gave police officers a much higher standard of objectivity to judge situations on a case-by-case basis that's similar to the defense used by ordinary people. It has also given an officer, no, a reasonable person, leeway to utilize Objective Reasonableness as a standard to judge.

When an Officer is judged in a court of law for use of force, it's done so by a jury of his peers. But, that jury is not a jury of Police Officers, who understand the dynamics of policing, nor are they trained to be police officers. The court wants the jury to be as open-minded as possible when judging these cases, and the standards set forth by definition of law to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the officer committed X-Offense with intent.

To change that objectiveness would be to change the principals behind being a human being. You can't change that. Law cannot change that. You do what you can to fit the criteria. To say the officers in Pasco, Washington murdered someone, is to say the police officers had the intent to unlawfully kill another human being with malice. Where's the malice? If you want to change that, then you'd have to go so far in to change, that you would shake the very fabric of the justice system, definitions and all. And that's something that none of us could do.

Anyone ever seen Robocop II(or 3?). That part where they decide to reprogram his AI based on what the public wants from him as a cop, asking him to help rescue cats and play with kids and etc... until he's got like 500 directives and it just completely fucks him up and he's completely useless and restricted to the point he can't even do his primary job, policing, at all? That's all I think about when people suggest how cops should and should not handle their jobs/situations... best intentions aside they have no idea what the hell they're talking about and in most cases their suggestion would simply cripple police from actually doing their jobs.

Most that is, not all of the suggestions are bad, and despite my posts here, I do agree with a lot of the points raised here as I do find it a bit scary how much an officer can get away with. I know that they need some leniency and rules to protect officers, but sometimes I do think they're very wide laws.



I don't disagree with you, but what fields/requirements do you feel have too low a standard? Specifically mind you, specific standards, where they are now, and where they should be at as your goal.

I often times find myself thinking much the same thing, that maybe if there were stricter psychological evaluations. But a lot of these things, stress under pressure, deescalating, these things are rarely born talents. They are taught through experience. Most of these stories people post here, or at least a good number I've read, involve rookies. If we drummed out every rookie whos made a mistake we wouldn't have a police force capable of anything. I'm not saying they should be getting away with murder for being a rookie, but i'm only implying a lot of these things are due to lack of experience and judgment in these situations.

And I'm sure none of you are too stupid to not understand that while yes, these people get practice in the academy and they try hard to train you for it... theory and reality aren't always the same and sometimes it takes real experience to build someone up.

I'd love to read the news and not see any stories about some junior cop blasting someone for holding a snickers bar too close to his hip just as much as you guys honestly, if anything Neph would at least be able to rest his typing finger here :\

Well said. I'm afraid my work will never be done, though. I'll get banned or die of old age before dirty cops go away.

[kuronosan]

ITT people who disagree with Neph somehow are thought of as being in agreement.

[Nephlite]

ITT people who disagree with Neph somehow are thought of as being in agreement.

It's okay to disagree. I don't get mad, call you guys out, insult you, or otherwise be a dick to anyone who has a different opinion, except when you insult me or get all "fuck you" to me. Yet, multiple people seem to be able to do this and get away with it. And, I can think your perception is fine, while still disagreeing with it. I've had various pissing matches with Karbuncle on this very sub, and he calmly and thoughtfully put his sentiment down without directly or indirectly trying to bait me or flame me for anything. So, I apologize for not getting completely "WTF YOU SAY TO ME?!" on a rational human being, who's trying to perpetuate discussion rather than stomping his feet and screaming "YOU'RE WRONG!!"

[Thunder]

not all discussions on the internet have to be full of buttmad sarcasm and reenactments of lynch mobs

[Ksandra]

And I'm afraid the bar won't change. For better or worse, it won't change until things change on a much higher level than you and me can begin to comprehend. End the war on drugs, and that'll solve some of it. It won't stop 1.5 guns per citizen in the US, some of which are used to murder people every day. People have tried to change it before, and the Supreme Court gave police officers a much higher standard of objectivity to judge situations on a case-by-case basis that's similar to the defense used by ordinary people. It has also given an officer, no, a reasonable person, leeway to utilize Objective Reasonableness as a standard to judge.

When an Officer is judged in a court of law for use of force, it's done so by a jury of his peers. But, that jury is not a jury of Police Officers, who understand the dynamics of policing, nor are they trained to be police officers. The court wants the jury to be as open-minded as possible when judging these cases, and the standards set forth by definition of law to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the officer committed X-Offense with intent.

To change that objectiveness would be to change the principals behind being a human being. You can't change that. Law cannot change that. You do what you can to fit the criteria. To say the officers in Pasco, Washington murdered someone, is to say the police officers had the intent to unlawfully kill another human being with malice. Where's the malice? If you want to change that, then you'd have to go so far in to change, that you would shake the very fabric of the justice system, definitions and all. And that's something that none of us could do.

This, quite frankly, is ridiculous. Yes, a full on 180 degree change is not going to happen overnight. But we all are capable of working towards change one small step at a time. And something that will greatly slow down that change is those who settle for less than what people deserve.

And, no, it's not murder. I would love to put actions like that into the voluntary manslaughter category.

No one should get away with killing another human being unnecessarily. No one. These "rookies" karbuncle talks about get a free vacation. It's dystopia levels of insanity.

[noblemountain]

Since this is the police news thread and not the tactics thread or whatever, I'll leave Neph's FUCKING INSANE theories about military training vs police training alone and continue posting on topic.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/no-c...6-times/nkDRF/

[Melena]

Probably too much to ask but can we go more than 5 posts without insulting or talking shit to each other. No wonder so many people want to see this section burn to the ground.

[mahler05]

Since this is the police news thread and not the tactics thread or whatever, I'll leave Neph's FUCKING INSANE theories about military training vs police training alone and continue posting on topic.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/no-c...6-times/nkDRF/

Wonder if they didn't receive criminal charges since he survived and won 3 million in the settlement.

[Nephlite]

This, quite frankly, is ridiculous. Yes, a full on 180 degree change is not going to happen overnight. But we all are capable of working towards change one small step at a time. And something that will greatly slow down that change is those who settle for less than what people deserve.

And, no, it's not murder. I would love to put actions like that into the voluntary manslaughter category.

No one should get away with killing another human being unnecessarily. No one. These "rookies" karbuncle talks about get a free vacation. It's dystopia levels of insanity.

I don't think any of the guys were "rookies", and if they were, it's irrelevant. Free vacation though is pretty laughable, but I'll probably get flamed for telling you your perception on that is pretty skewed.

Change is good, and I hope you're able to make a difference. If you need help contacting officials in your local sector, remember that you can always stop by your local sheriff's office for their contact info.

And no one should be punished for justifiable homicide, which also falls in to this category. People tend to forget the spectrum for both categories are arguably easy to justify both ways. Beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused recklessly took the life of another through a criminal act (involuntary or voluntary manslaughter), over the killing of another human being when the accused was in reasonable fear of his life being in danger.

Since this is the police news thread and not the tactics thread or whatever, I'll leave Neph's FUCKING INSANE theories about military training vs police training alone and continue posting on topic.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/no-c...6-times/nkDRF/

Insane that I've rationally and calmly bridged the policies together and showed you that they're similar? You haven't refuted anything, so your argument was pointless to begin with. I did nothing but prove the UOF and engagement policies are almost identical, which was my original claim. I've no illusions of the police getting any specific training that would be identical to military, unless you're in SWAT or ERT, but, make no mistake that the principals and classroom experience in that training are nearly the same for a reason, which you fail to see.

Probably too much to ask but can we go more than 5 posts without insulting or talking shit to each other. No wonder so many people want to see this section burn to the ground.

Hah! I don't mind it, actually. It lets people get the hate off their chest. It does confirm that the toxic community of BG hides behind the silver platter, though. Might be bad ju-ju for the lurkers.

[Thunder]

But we all are capable of working towards change one small step at a time. And something that will greatly slow down that change is those who settle for less than what people deserve.

are you implying that changes in the policeforce will come when the population is in agreement that "things need to change"? That's dystopia levels of insanity! Joking aside.. change has only ever come from a very small number of people being very active. Me, neph, and whoever else who thinks "this is the way it is - it is what it is" and goes on doing their own business isn't standing between you and your kids having a safer policeforce.

No one should get away with killing another human being unnecessarily. No one. These "rookies" karbuncle talks about get a free vacation. It's dystopia levels of insanity.

Medical field does it all the time. Way more than the police, actually. But it's OK. The media wont even touch those stories because a cop overstepping boundaries is much easier to connect with emotionally.

I mean, just look at the posts here. Why all the animosity - is changing someone's opinion here going to "help the cause"? And is that the best way of going about it

[Xantavia]

Its pretty easy for regular citizens to try and enact some change. Easiest thing: stop being a dick if you have to interact with the police. Answer any questions they have honestly. Don't stick your nose into a police interaction that you are not involved in. If they ask you to keep your hands visible, don't go reaching around the car or behind your back.

And yet there are so many videos of people getting pulled over and they immediately get belligerent with the police instead of taking responsibility for speeding or running a red light. A mother or girlfriend putting their hands on a cop because their son/boyfriend is a good kid and never does anything wrong.

I see excuses for this behavior because somebody may have had a bad interaction with the police growing up, and people support it saying they should be scared. And yet an officer isn't supposed to be affected by what has happened in the past. In a perfect world, they wouldn't be. But they can draw parallels and see patterns when the same things happen time and again which might make them much more suspicious and jumpy when going into said situations.

[kuronosan]

are you implying that changes in the policeforce will come when the population is in agreement that "things need to change"? That's dystopia levels of insanity! Joking aside.. change has only ever come from a very small number of people being very active. Me, neph, and whoever else who thinks "this is the way it is - it is what it is" and goes on doing their own business isn't standing between you and your kids having a safer policeforce.


Medical field does it all the time. Way more than the police, actually. But it's OK. The media wont even touch those stories because a cop overstepping boundaries is much easier to connect with emotionally.

I mean, just look at the posts here. Why all the animosity - is changing someone's opinion here going to "help the cause"? And is that the best way of going about it

Oh so you work in medicine?

Because if you did, then you'd understand what an utterly horrible comparison that is.

[Thunder]

Oh so you work in medicine?

Because if you did, then you'd understand what an utterly horrible comparison that is.

Oh so you work in police?

Because if you did, then you'd understand what an utterly horrible comparison that is.

@all of your posts here. I know you're trying to be edgy and all sorts of witty but come on.. can you have an actual conversation?

[Yuri-G]

If you can't take down a guy throwing rocks without shooting him, don't be a cop. If we see lethal force as an appropriate response to rocks, we have a serious problem as a country.

[Melena]

Well, if you want to start making comparisons, rocks can be lethal and as been stated and shown, tasers didn't work. If they riot armored up a couple guys to run up and tackle him you all would be bitching about that as well. If they stand around until he gets tired it turns into a ha ha they can't apprehend a person throwing rocks. No win in the situation. But then again, if you don't want to get shot, maybe not throw rocks at people. A lot of this can be summed up in, don't want to get shot, don't be a fucking retard. I don't think there's been really any situations here where if person A was being a normal person and not an asshole they wouldn't have gotten shot/killed.